Mirai tree sale

[Bonsai Nut]

This guy irritates me to be honest. He seems like a snake oil salesman to me. He could sell rocking horse poo if he was so inclined, but he sells bonsai instead for super inflated prices.

It is easy to look at a big number like $130K and think "wow, that's huge". But considering it is an annual sale - and that his profit margin might be 50% on those trees after materials, pots and labor - that number doesn't go far at all for a business in Portland. I'll bet it doesn't even cover a month of his operating expenses. I actually view it almost like a charity event - an opportunity to own some of the trees that are featured on his streams.

Am I envious? Somewhat... but maybe not. I look at his $15K tree and really like it. But I ask myself if I had $15K in loose pocket change would I buy that tree? No. Not because I don't think it's worth that amount (to some people). It isn't worth it to me - and why I enjoy bonsai. I enjoy the process of locating trees and styling them. I am not a "buy a finished bonsai" kinda guy. It's sort of like - would you be happier painting an oil painting, or buying a painting by a highly regarded artist? Different strokes for different folks... and that's fine.

I wonder how many if any were purchase by collections? Such as some of the ones in California or the one in Federal Way??

None. I don't know of a single collection that buys trees. They display trees that are donated from numerous sources. The core of the collection at the National Bonsai Pavillion are the trees given to the USA from Japan to celebrate the country's bicentennial. The extensive collection at the Huntington Gardens are all trees donated by top names in California bonsai. For most collectors, having one of your trees featured (and cared for) in a permanent collection at one of these gardens is the ultimate honor.

In the case of the Huntington, they actually turn many trees away. Each tree has to be meaningful, and contribute to the collection in a meaningful way - because the tree is a perishable item that has to be maintained. Now suiseki... those you can collect ad nauseum You should see the trailers full of suiseki they have.

 

[BobbyLane]

its very common to see price tags of up to £2,500/$2,500 on raw material. hornbeams even.
no, not just show ready trees grant those types of outlays. look around the market

 

[Shogun610]

Basically none of these trees are finished, or rather, show ready. For some of the prices there I’d want a show ready tree. They’re big, sure, but blimey.

Plus, the ages of the trees are complete guesses, too many of the same age. Has any dating been done? I mean it’s fine to speculate for a personal collection etc, but when selling you have a duty to be accurate in your descriptions.

Also, I disagree about it being good for or being a sign of healthy American bonsai market. What it shows is that there are some (33) people with more money than sense and 33 sales is not a true reflection of any marketplace really.

This guy irritates me to be honest. He seems like a snake oil salesman to me. He could sell rocking horse poo if he was so inclined, but he sells bonsai instead for super inflated prices. Fair play if people do want to spend their money, fair play for the business plan of the yearly sale, but pricing bonsai out of the reach of 99% of people is less encouraging for average joe, more just shows people what most of them can’t ever reach.

Bit of a rant but it’s just my 2p

At the surface, I can see why you’d be annoyed by it, but as someone who sees first hand the amount of knowledge,labor and work that goes into collecting ,proper care, development , maintenance, procurement (trees,pots, soil, tools, water, etc.) the Bonsai personally owned by a professionals collection, trees available for purchase or client trees, it’s not uncommon seeing a specimen go for 4-5 digit costs. I think it takes perspective to see the how’s and why’s , when appraising trees no matter where in there development they sit.

 

[rockm]

It is easy to look at a big number like $130K and think "wow, that's huge". But considering it is an annual sale - and that his profit margin might be 50% on those trees after materials, pots and labor - that number doesn't go far at all for a business in Portland. I'll bet it doesn't even cover a month of his operating expenses. I actually view it almost like a charity event - an opportunity to own some of the trees that are featured on his streams.

Am I envious? Somewhat... but maybe not. I look at his $15K tree and really like it. But I ask myself if I had $15K in loose pocket change would I buy that tree? No. Not because I don't think it's worth that amount (to some people). It isn't worth it to me - and why I enjoy bonsai. I enjoy the process of locating trees and styling them. I am not a "buy a finished bonsai" kinda guy. It's sort of like - would you be happier painting an oil painting, or buying a painting by a highly regarded artist? Different strokes for different folks... and that's fine.

None. I don't know of a single collection that buys trees. They display trees that are donated from numerous sources. The core of the collection at the National Bonsai Pavillion are the trees given to the USA from Japan to celebrate the country's bicentennial. The extensive collection at the Huntington Gardens are all trees donated by some of the top names in California bonsai. For most collectors, having one of your trees featured (and cared for) in a permanent collection at one of these gardens is the ultimate honor.

In the case of the Huntington, they actually turn many trees away. Each tree has to be meaningful, and contribute to the collection in a meaningful way - because the tree is a perishable item that has to be maintained. Now suiseki... those you can collect ad nauseum You should see the trailers full of suiseki they have.

The National Bonsai and Penjing Museum doesn't have to buy trees. Beyond the initial gift of 53 trees from Japan, the museum was given an initial 36 penjing/pensai by noted Chinese collector Yee-Sun Wu. Along with those, gifts from noted American bonsai artists, Dan Robinson, Chase Rosade, Yuji Yoshimura, John Naka, and other extremely well-known North American artists make up the North American collection.

The museum gets trees donated all the time and the gifts from Japan and China continue, as do trees accepted from individuals. Some of those donated trees used to make it into "surplus sales" back in the day. I bought a few trees from those sales (pre-Internet) and the lines to get into the sales were long and full of notable collectors. Prices were reasonable--$100-$1000 or a bit more. Quality was pretty good. Some trees were, quite frankly, pretty average--which is why the arb chose to get rid of them. I sold the trees I bought at those events long ago.

 

[smc]

Basically none of these trees are finished, or rather, show ready. For some of the prices there I’d want a show ready tree. They’re big, sure, but blimey.

Plus, the ages of the trees are complete guesses, too many of the same age. Has any dating been done? I mean it’s fine to speculate for a personal collection etc, but when selling you have a duty to be accurate in your descriptions.

Also, I disagree about it being good for or being a sign of healthy American bonsai market. What it shows is that there are some (33) people with more money than sense and 33 sales is not a true reflection of any marketplace really.

This guy irritates me to be honest. He seems like a snake oil salesman to me. He could sell rocking horse poo if he was so inclined, but he sells bonsai instead for super inflated prices. Fair play if people do want to spend their money, fair play for the business plan of the yearly sale, but pricing bonsai out of the reach of 99% of people is less encouraging for average joe, more just shows people what most of them can’t ever reach.

Bit of a rant but it’s just my 2p

Ah, I am sure you prefer the days of master artists being penniless.

Also - this is not much of a profit after operating costs, taxes, etc. And then he has to pay actual living expenses for a family. No doubt much of his money is earned through Mirai Live, not tree sales.

The trees are also pretty spectacular. It would be unrealistic for Rocky Mountain No. 5 sell for a few hundred dollars (e. the price for an "average joe") - between the rarity/age of the tree, the time/effort/cost it took to collect & transport, the time/effort it took to train (not to mention the imbedded cost of years of training/apprenticeship), the cost of the pot, etc. etc.

Have you ever walked into a fine art store? Even mundane paintings cost thousands. This is just a painting in tree form.

For those of us that cannot afford the best bonsai available, we can simply start with more common & younger material and then do our best.

 

[AcerAddict]

most people still aren't even buying material in the $250 to $450 range.

You're probably right. I would love to see the price spread for every bonsai tree ever sold in the U.S. over the last 20 years. I bet if you broke it up into $100 brackets ($100-199, $200-299, etc.), the overwhelming majority of bonsai bought during that time would fall in between $0-99 or $100-199. Likely because many people START in bonsai, but much fewer STAY in bonsai. Most people trying a new hobby get in at the basement level to see if they'll like it first before making a big commitment.

I've played pool in a league for many years, and I bet the spread of money spent on a pool cue would be quite similar. For every $1,000-2,000 cue I see, there are dozens that cost less than $250. I started with a house cue, then bought a $90 production cue, then a $400 production cue, then a $700 custom cue, and now I shoot with a one-of-a-kind $2,000 cue. There are even highly-detailed cues made with hundreds inlays that include brass, silver, and ivory, among other materials, that cost $10,000 or more.

In the end, people buy what their budget allows. If your budget can afford a Mirai tree, then buy a Mirai tree.

 

[Shogun610]

Ah, I am sure you prefer the days of master artists being penniless.

Also - this is not much of a profit after operating costs, taxes, etc. And then he has to pay actual living expenses for a family. No doubt much of his money is earned through Mirai Live, not tree sales.

The trees are also pretty spectacular. It would be unrealistic for Rocky Mountain No. 5 sell for a few hundred dollars (e. the price for an "average joe") - between the rarity/age of the tree, the time/effort/cost it took to collect & transport, the time/effort it took to train (not to mention the imbedded cost of years of training/apprenticeship), the cost of the pot, etc. etc.

Have you ever walked into a fine art store? Even mundane paintings cost thousands. This is just a painting in tree form.

For those of us that cannot afford the best bonsai available, we can simply start with more common & younger material and then do our best.

To add, Ryan also said countless times during his videos or podcasts that if you go into Bonsai to be wealthy , you’re in the wrong profession

 

[FusionOdyssey]

Greed

 

[rockm]

Greed

 

[Timarsen]

Greed

Ignorance.

 

[Kadebe]

Greed

If you think this is greed, maybe this is for you....
Cheap, no maintenance and the shape remains guaranteed

VICKY YAO Exclusief ontwerp Kunstmatige Bonsai Boom Arrangement 60cm H Cadeau voor hem Bonsai Kunst - Etsy België

Merk:VICKY YAO Kleur: Groen Materiaal Plant: kunststof, pot: keramiek, stam: echte stam Totaal: 50 x 28 x 60 cm H Totaal: 19 x 11 x 24 inch Opmerkingen: De stam van oude bomen is natuurlijk, met verschillende texturen en vormen Retourbeleid: Dit artikel komt NIET in aanmerking voor onze 14

www.etsy.com

 

[BobbyLane]

$5k for my pot, $800 for the tree
Curious to know where it ends up
View attachment 392612

were there anymore deciduous tree images?

 

[Shogun610]

were there anymore deciduous tree

Trees

goods.bonsaimirai.com

They’re still up

 

[BobbyLane]

Trees

goods.bonsaimirai.com

They’re still up

a few of those trees have not been in training for more than 3 years with massive price tags.
just goes to show, with a bit of skill, trees can be moved forward very quickly in the hobby. in re to those deciduous trees, that type of trident material isnt hard to come buy. the work done on the pommygranates, most notably the third one, isnt hard to do. it says cultivated in California, field grown i imagine. i wonder how much it would be buying direct from the source. Maybe only mirai have such access to this kind of material....

 

[Shogun610]

a few of those trees have not been in training for more than 3 years with massive price tags.
just goes to show, with a bit of skill, trees can be moved forward very quickly in the hobby. in re to those deciduous trees, that type of trident material isnt hard to come buy. the work done on the pommygranates, most notably the third one, isnt hard to do. it says cultivated in California, field grown i imagine. i wonder how much it would be buying direct from the source. Maybe only mirai have such access to this kind of material....

An Oak like they posted is on my list , I agree with the latter. The complicated aspect too of buying / learning from Mirai is the changes in climate , what works best for them might not work best for the person in the new location.

 

[namnhi]

What the heck is that limp d*ck dropping down from the side of the pot in Coast Live Oak No. 3. Not sure what value that add to that tree.
I thought Brussel's trees are expensive but how are those tridents maple forests can command that much? The pots look great those but WOW... those are 3 year old seedlings at best.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

If you can't afford the original, nothing stopping you from making your own





FWIW - I'm not sure I could even keep a Rocky Mountain juniper alive in North Carolina. They are arid weather trees cold hardy to Zone 3, and are very susceptible to fungal diseases if you keep them in humid conditions.

 

[meushi]

You're probably right. I would love to see the price spread for every bonsai tree ever sold in the U.S. over the last 20 years. I bet if you broke it up into $100 brackets ($100-199, $200-299, etc.), the overwhelming majority of bonsai bought during that time would fall in between $0-99 or $100-199. Likely because many people START in bonsai, but much fewer STAY in bonsai. Most people trying a new hobby get in at the basement level to see if they'll like it first before making a big commitment.

Corner of the napkin estimation for my club: less than a quarter of the members have spent 100 or more on a tree... that's rather sad.

 

[Woocash]

ah see this is the ambition part i was talking about. nobody is stopping anyone from making their own trees.
with a bit more drive, ambition, confidence they can.
he has showed many what can be done with raw nursery stock, field grown material and collected stock. again, dont be in awe, be inspired. you can find material like that crypto in a landscape nursery.
so no i dont think a lot of his stuff is out of reach to the masses.
unless Randy knight is the only person allowed to collect

most people still arent even buying material in the $250 to $450 range.

No they’re not out reach by a long stretch, except geographically for wild collecting or trawling through nurseries or time spent developing, but that’s kind of my point. What this is doing is giving a skewed view of what is achievable. For those prices you would expect them to be right at the top end, but they are not.

 

[rockm]

What the heck is that limp d*ck dropping down from the side of the pot in Coast Live Oak No. 3. Not sure what value that add to that tree.
I thought Brussel's trees are expensive but how are those tridents maple forests can command that much? The pots look great those but WOW... those are 3 year old seedlings at best.

Can't really explain the hanging root on the Coast Live oak. Oaks can be funky. That appendage just adds to the funk, I guess.

The maple forests are meh, particularly the one in the broken/repaired antique pot.-(for $1,100 that pot damage alone would be a deal killer for me).. The $3,500 one, however, has individual trees with some pretty nice nebari. The trees in it are connected to an original Nanpu kai student. Nanpukai was John Naka's prestigious instructional group, so it has a bit of a pedigree. It's also in a pot worth probably $600-$700. Whether all that is worth the money is up to the buyer though.