Mirai tree sale

[rockm]

A lot of variables to consider.. that large redwood is 122lbs.. does the person who snapped the large one in a second even realize it’s that tall and heavy? They had to realize that in 5 seconds because it was gone instantly..the smaller one is 85lbs and less than half as tall but is incredible.. all the trees in very expensive pots.. those cheap maples are more than half the cost in just the pots.. rare species and sizes.. also name brand artist. Too much whining imo.. it’s art.. it’s not like an adult using a crayon and scribbling and charging 20k for it.. the prices were not wayyy out there esp with the pot artists and Ryan’s name.

Also in regards to the olives…I love Olive trees but I much prefer the ones at Wigerts .. I had a tough time choosing mine from there they are all soo gorgeous. It’s probably my favorite tree I own. I think people see a chunk and throw it in a pot and done.. a lot of crazy work you can do on them. Eric Wigert and I saw Mike Lane do some work on a vid on the one I just scooped about a month ago. It’s blowing up on my deck and needs to be cleaned up this week with a lot of lower new growth needing to be removed. The tree is absolutely phenomenal and imo worth double or more what I paid. To me this shows what hype can do because it is much nicer than the olives at mirai but those olives allow for more future work on the trunk.. whereas I paid for more work, better styling and it is still in a very nice ron lang pot.

For the sale I was ready when the clock ticked and everything I had in my cart in the first couple minutes sold.. I changed my mind right away and went back within 10 seconds and the first tree and second were gone.. went back for the other two trees and gone.. it’s tough to make a life choice on a tree you would cherish in a few minutes/seconds. The process flat out sucks. I’d pay for a vip spot just to preview the trees. By the time I got 10-15 trees down the list the ones I wanted were all gone.

Congrats to the owners of the new trees!! Some real nice gems were scooped up!!!

Sure, the person who bought that big redwood was aware of its size which is why they most likely one of the reasons they bought it. Wiring is temporary.

This kind of sale is certainly not for the timid. Sales like these go VERY quickly, despite their price tags (the highest priced stuff has likely been "previewed" by people--who are familiar with the trees from in-person visits to Mirai.) I don't think many people plunk down $10 grand without having seen a tree up close and personal. Those folks are either previous customers or people who are at Mirai regularly, IMO. Taking one of the five-day courses at Mirai would probably give you access to see what's what. It's certainly a commitment.

The pace at which trees are bought isn't anything new. There is very high demand for higher end trees. Another example of an extreme high end market was the in-person surplus sale of Kennett Collection bonsai in Delaware ten years back (before Mirai's sales). In that sale, a lottery system was used to tier buyers' entry into the nursery. You had to tag what you wanted (limit 3 trees per person), and leave for the next tranche of buyers to come in. All the extremely good stuff was gone in the first few tiers, but the remaining trees were pretty damn nice. There were substantially more trees at that event than here. Everything went VERY quickly. Doug Paul imports extremely good trees directly from Japan and has literally hundreds of trees and sells them sometimes to make room for more. He also has entered trees in the prestigious Kokufu exhibition in Japan as well.

Same was true back when The National Bonsai and Penjing Museum used to have sales of their surplus bonsai, back before any of this, in the late 90's. I went to those and believe me, you had to be quick to get good trees. The line started two hours before the gate opened and you could scope out where the best trees were from there. It was also THE place to talk to east coast (and some west coast) bonsai notables standing in line--usually ahead of you. The price tags were exponentially lower than Mirai at those events, but quality was pretty decent. You had to be quick to get what you wanted. I bought a couple of trees at them. Have since sold them off.

 

[Wood]

Yeah, but how much of that is Ryan Neil, who has exclusive distribution rights of J Cross pots, constantly pushing the pots on the #1 bonsai broadcast network that he conveniently owns?

I've heard several people, @IzzyG included, mention that J Cross pots, while gorgeous, are very hard to use as containers. They're closer to art objects than functional pots. It bugs me because I love the aesthetics of these pots

 

[Maiden69]

Yeah, but how much of that is Ryan Neil, who has exclusive distribution rights of J Cross pots, constantly pushing the pots on the #1 bonsai broadcast network that he conveniently owns?

I've heard several people, @IzzyG included, mention that J Cross pots, while gorgeous, are very hard to use as containers. They're closer to art objects than functional pots. It bugs me because I love the aesthetics of these pots

Then buy it through Mirai, there are plenty of artist, not only on the bonsai industry that don't like to deal with detail sales. I'm sure if J.Cross wanted to sell his pots by detail he would do so. Right now, there are quite a few big names in the game that if you go to their website there are no new items added for sale. But there is new stuff from them on sale by distributors. There is a big misconception that some people have about price, it is to think that if they buy through the artists the price will be cheaper (fair). And this is not true, a lot of times the price is done in accordance with the artist. The distributor usually gets a discount because they buy in bulk. MRP are usually set, and a lot of times the distributor can not go above or below the accorded MRP. Don't know if this is the case with J.Cross pots, but could be.

 

[Kevin1968]

If you can afford one of these trees and fall in love with it, I would not bash you for that as its your money and vision.
That being said none of these trees grabbed at my heart strings. I personally will not buy any tree that I can't say when I looked at it, I could see and understand it, and I just could not leave without it. I am not doing this to make a living it is relaxing to me, fun, and low cost compared to some of my other hobbies, Saltwater fish tanks, I have a 90 gallon and a 300 gallon. Remote control nitro airplanes and jets I have many of. It is fun to look at a tree and find the small tree inside of it.

I would pay $200.00 for one of these.




way before I Paid $500 for one of these.
Just my opinion.

 

[leatherback]

You are wrong about not looking at that boxwood without having Mirai's name with it. If I saw a Kingsville boxwood of that size and unmistakable quality on ebay with no attribution, I would definitely pay attention. Extremely few examples of this cultivar in such large size are ever seen for sale. If you understand what you're looking at, the value of the tree in question becomes pretty apparent.

Your question was "rhetorical" but in a pretty leading way, suggesting that it is not worth the asking price. You then assert that if not for the name, the tree isn't worth it. If it's not snide, then it's disingenuous.

You just can't help youself right?

Absolutely incapable of accepting that not everybody sees the world the way you do.

I DO NOT CARE whether this is a rare as pickles boxwood. Besides not liking the species, the tree does nothing for me. So I would never shell out 5K for it.
You can decide that for you it is worth it.

I can pose the question whether one would consider this tree if it were somewhere else or whether they would scroll away.

No need for namecalling and subverted insults.

I realize open discussion and exchange of ideas is becoming a rare thing on your side of the pond. But leave that behaviour at home when you come here. Right now, you are just being rude and bullying without a reason and it is very childish.

 

[snowman04]

That was my thought too. At least 1/2 of the price... Was looking at his work yesterday and I will have to get one soon...

 

[Srt8madness]

If you can afford one of these trees and fall in love with it, I would not bash you for that as its your money and vision.
That being said none of these trees grabbed at my heart strings. I personally will not buy any tree that I can't say when I looked at it, I could see and understand it, and I just could not leave without it. I am not doing this to make a living it is relaxing to me, fun, and low cost compared to some of my other hobbies, Saltwater fish tanks, I have a 90 gallon and a 300 gallon. Remote control nitro airplanes and jets I have many of. It is fun to look at a tree and find the small tree inside of it.

I would pay $200.00 for one of these.
View attachment 504950



way before I Paid $500 for one of these.View attachment 504951
Just my opinion.

Hey! I came from the RC side of things too, never fly anymore though Same name on RCG if you ever visit that forum, mostly hanging in the basement, lol

 

[Wood]

You just can't help youself right?

Absolutely incapable of accepting that not everybody sees the world the way you do.

I DO NOT CARE whether this is a rare as pickles boxwood. Besides not liking the species, the tree does nothing for me. So I would never shell out 5K for it.
You can decide that for you it is worth it.

I can pose the question whether one would consider this tree if it were somewhere else or whether they would scroll away.

No need for namecalling and subverted insults.

I realize open discussion and exchange of ideas is becoming a rare thing on your side of the pond. But leave that behaviour at home when you come here. Right now, you are just being rude and bullying without a reason and it is very childish.

You effectively held up a book and showed us only the back cover and asked if we had read it. Someone pointed out that you weren't showing us the front where the title is printed. Now you're being a jerk about how much the book should cost because the back cover isn't very pretty.

 

[Srt8madness]

You just can't help youself right?

Absolutely incapable of accepting that not everybody sees the world the way you do.

I DO NOT CARE whether this is a rare as pickles boxwood. Besides not liking the species, the tree does nothing for me. So I would never shell out 5K for it.
You can decide that for you it is worth it.

I can pose the question whether one would consider this tree if it were somewhere else or whether they would scroll away.

No need for namecalling and subverted insults.

I realize open discussion and exchange of ideas is becoming a rare thing on your side of the pond. But leave that behaviour at home when you come here. Right now, you are just being rude and bullying without a reason and it is very childish.

Yeah Cowboy, that argument falls flat when people get arrested in Europe for calling people names online.

 

[Kevin1968]

Hey! I came from the RC side of things too, never fly anymore though Same name on RCG if you ever visit that forum, mostly hanging in the basement, lol

It's just not as much fun since my dad passed away in 2005.

 

[Maiden69]

If you can afford one of these trees and fall in love with it, I would not bash you for that as its your money and vision.
That being said none of these trees grabbed at my heart strings. I personally will not buy any tree that I can't say when I looked at it, I could see and understand it, and I just could not leave without it. I am not doing this to make a living it is relaxing to me, fun, and low cost compared to some of my other hobbies, Saltwater fish tanks, I have a 90 gallon and a 300 gallon. Remote control nitro airplanes and jets I have many of. It is fun to look at a tree and find the small tree inside of it.

I would pay $200.00 for one of these.


way before I Paid $500 for one of these.
Just my opinion.

Not in the same league... like at all. I think when Rodney Clemons went to Mirai to style one of them they said the trees were over 40 years old from Shanti Bithi in Connecticut.

 

[Srt8madness]

Not in the same league... like at all. I think when Rodney Clemons went to Mirai to style one of them they said the trees were over 40 years old from Shanti Bithi in Connecticut.

View attachment 504960


View attachment 504961

The big big one that got styled is leagues above the one that was listed yesterday though, that thing was phenomenal.

 

[Kevin1968]

Not in the same league... like at all. I think when Rodney Clemons went to Mirai to style one of them they said the trees were over 40 years old from Shanti Bithi in Connecticut.

View attachment 504960


View attachment 504961

Was not meant to be in the same league. The point was "I would buy a $200.00 bush before, I paid Mirai money for a 40 year old tree.

If you have the money and desire to buy one of these go for it. I will still value your opinion at a later date. I would even ask how its doing. But the above is my personal opinion. I enjoy looking at trees others make some are inspirational. But I would rather do it myself than spend that kind of $$$$$$

 

[rockm]

Okay I'm a little surprised at this sage. It has all of three, maybe four, branches? It's six inches high and eight inches wide, but it's "mame-sized"? It doesn't really seem to be styled to me, but it's $850...

Sage

While Mame-sized trees aren't common in Mirai's bonsai collection, this petite sage was too irresistible to overlook due to its undeniable quality. Nestled within a fantastic Jonathan Cross ceramic, which beautifully merges the desert aesthetic with the essence of sagebrush, this composition's...

goods.bonsaimirai.com

View attachment 504949

The price is definitely high, probably at the upper end of reasonable. It is, however, a rare species in mame size in a container. How many mame sized sage bonsai have you seen? This is the only one I've seen. Unstyled or styled. Most others are over 12" or even twice that with considerable root mass and pot. Mame are much harder to keep than larger bonsai in general--a lot less room for error--few branches, smaller soil volume, less foliage and branching to work with, etc.

Good mame bonsai are expensive. Ever price a shimpaku mame from Suthin?

 

[IzzyG]

Yeah, but how much of that is Ryan Neil, who has exclusive distribution rights of J Cross pots, constantly pushing the pots on the #1 bonsai broadcast network that he conveniently owns?

I've heard several people, @IzzyG included, mention that J Cross pots, while gorgeous, are very hard to use as containers. They're closer to art objects than functional pots. It bugs me because I love the aesthetics of these pots

Johnathan Cross’s containers are definitely hard to use as they’re exceptionally heavy and large, but at the same time have very small interior space. However, when you get the right pairing, the aesthetic trumps the weight obstacle!

As far as distribution for containers go, it’s a lot trickier than one would imagine(for my imagination anyways). Most artists aren’t “suppliers”. You can’t just ask them to supply another 10 containers when your inventory runs low. You really work with their schedule; which is completely fine but as a business, it provides its own challenges. In addition, there’s been situations where the exclusive distributor risks their own money ahead of getting inventory, in the form of infrastructure/capital costs(like setting up a new kiln) or an advance. As a business/capital guy, I cannot see the “financial only” reason to do it.

 

[Wood]

.... It is, however, a rare species in mame size in a container. How many mame sized sage bonsai have you seen? This is the only one I've seen. Unstyled or styled....

I was calling it out because I feel like six inches high and eight inches wide is solidly in shohin territory, not mame, and doesn't feel particularly close to me. My impression could be far off though.

The rarity of sage at this size is a fair point.

How much of that is a chicken-and-egg problem? I don't imagine that there are many sage being grown from cuttings or starter plants easily available to keep super small. My impression is that they were mostly collected, and super small collected trees are definitely a rarity. Being an east coast guy, my impressions on sage could be wildly wrong though

 

[rockm]

You just can't help youself right?

Absolutely incapable of accepting that not everybody sees the world the way you do.

I DO NOT CARE whether this is a rare as pickles boxwood. Besides not liking the species, the tree does nothing for me. So I would never shell out 5K for it.
You can decide that for you it is worth it.

I can pose the question whether one would consider this tree if it were somewhere else or whether they would scroll away.

No need for namecalling and subverted insults.

I realize open discussion and exchange of ideas is becoming a rare thing on your side of the pond. But leave that behaviour at home when you come here. Right now, you are just being rude and bullying without a reason and it is very childish.

Nope, Can't help myself from calling BS...Get particularly grouchy when people who talk out of their ass without having any experience with what they're trashing, get upset when someone calls them on it.

You've never actually seen any of the species in the sale in person, nor care to understand WHY some are priced the way they are, never dealt with Mirai (I mean beyond possibly paying for an online stream or looking at a video) yet insinuate people are being ripped off because they're fools following only a brand--C'mon, nut up dude, that's what you're side stepping around with the "I'm just asking questions" BS.

Yes, feel free to exercise your opinion of the tree itself. There are certainly flaws in all trees and more than a few in these listed, but insinuating crap about being interested only because it's being sold by a "name" is a tired blind old dog that won't hunt.

 

[rockm]

I was calling it out because I feel like six inches high and eight inches wide is solidly in shohin territory, not mame, and doesn't feel particularly close to me. My impression could be far off though.

The rarity of sage at this size is a fair point.

How much of that is a chicken-and-egg problem? I don't imagine that there are many sage being grown from cuttings or starter plants easily available to keep super small. My impression is that they were mostly collected, and super small collected trees are definitely a rarity. Being an east coast guy, my impressions on sage could be wildly wrong though

My impression is also that this isn't a cutting. With all that weathered deadwood, it is most certainly a wild collected tree. The species is common in high desert in a number of areas in the Southwest and Northwest (east of the Cascades). I have heard it's not all that easy to get into a bonsai container, but more of it is showing up out west in containers.

Shohin or mame, whatever. Ever price Suthin's shohin trees? Small is small. Getting one into a relatively tiny container and having it survive is no small accomplishment.

 

[Sansokuu]

Yes it is, I saw it Tuesday on the stream and thought the



Ryan did miss the point by not mentioning your name on the listing, or on the video but he went to say that you are



A few people in the chat did brought up your name and the name of your business.

A few screenshots of the pot as Ryan was talking about it.

View attachment 504933


View attachment 504936


View attachment 504937

Oh thanks for sharing these! I think this is a pot we didn’t really get pictures of. So it is nice to see it close up like this. Nao pretty much made and glazed the whole thing, I embellished it with the little quail. I hope whoever bought the tree and pot enjoy it.

 

[Sansokuu]

I saw the attribution as "the wife" and remembered Sharon Edwards-Russell struggled with the same issue. She has been Ron Lang's partner in life and business for decades (Ron retired a few years ago from making pots). Sharon made excellent pots same as Ron. I bought more than a few of her containers over the years.

I didn’t even know about Sharon! But I am also a bit ‘new’ to the bonsai and bonsai pot scene. I will have to look up her work. It makes me happy to see some prominent women in bonsai in the meantime, though they are very few but exceptionally skilled (April Grigsby, Young Choe, Vicki Chamberlain, Sara Rayner just to name a few).

I think this happens to women in Japan too who have prominent bonsai pot maker spouses.. But I’m not going to go into gender equality issues in re: to Japan.