Last (ever?) Mirai Tree Sale

[shohin_branches]

So, I'm wondering how he is going to make the bulk of his income. I would guess seminars, on-site teaching and private bonsai maintenance.

He does intensive classes and he has his students work on on client trees which is like doubling the income. He also does boarding services, subscriptions for online videos, and app subscriptions.

He doesn't do club Demonstrations.

 

[houterig]

This thread has a screengrab of all the trees for sale: https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/mirai-tree-sale.61314/page-15

I'm a bit disappointed at not being able to see them. They have been emailing me about it for weeks!

Lol, I didnt see your link it would have saved me the trouble

Any case, through google cache and a VPN directed through USA I was able to see them. Maybe it makes sense since they dont ship over water.

 

[pandacular]

He doesn't do club Demonstrations.

never say never

 

[shohin_branches]

never say never View attachment 565385

He was asked to do one for my club a few years back. First said he would and then he said he doesn't do club demos.

 

[pandacular]

Yeah I don’t blame him. Demos are one of the worst forms of instructions. Did he refuse to visit at all? That’s different than refusing to do a demo.

 

[leatherback]

Maybe European people are region blocked?

Yup, I realized the same. Change region to USA and you can see them.
Stupid geolocating websites.

 

[shohin_branches]

Yeah I don’t blame him. Demos are one of the worst forms of instructions. Did he refuse to visit at all? That’s different than refusing to do a demo.

Every club meeting is a demo of some skill or aspect of care. These aren't the same as a the initial styling demos that are popular at conventions.

We also do workshops with the guest speaker.

Our club now has a videographer and two large TVs to zoom in on what the speaker is doing for their demonstration each meeting. The videos are then posted on the club site for members only.

Without clubs bonsai wouldn't be what it is today.

 

[pandacular]

You misunderstood my comment; I don’t think demos are bad per se, but they’re more entertainment than education. If you want to watch Ryan Neil style a tree, there’s a much better place to do that than a club room.

Ryan is giving our club a lecture and in lieu of the normal workshop, will be doing a tree critique. Neither of these are demos, but they are quite valuable.

Tree work is far from the only thing a bonsai professional can offer. Our clubs sound like they operate much the same, I apologize if I came off as sounding unappreciative of clubs.

 

[clem]

That is weird, I can not see them at all using your links. Maybe European people are region blocked?

sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't.. dunno why. I did nothing, but now i can see all the trees, pics, description..

 

[Applicative]

Still quite surprising to me that even at these prices you cant make a decent buck selling bonsai..

I know regular bonsai nurserys are struggling but I figured Mirai would be doing okay since their goods are priced considerably higher than other vendors.

It's how you define a decent buck.

look at Mirai- it's production staff alone is not your average mom and pop. The architecture of the buildings, the design of the website and app, his house, the collection of trees in upper 6 figures.

The amount of consistent revenue as a business he would have to demonstrate just to get a loan -- All of these things put Mirai in like $2-$5M in annual revenue at the very least.

It's not that you can't make money, it's the revenue stream on trees alone, especially extremely bespoke specimen trees is not workable. Working nursery's are making their largest percent on entry level material if they are selling to the public.

It's less about how expensive these trees are, and much more about creating the necessary cash flow.

 

[Paradox]

I saw that and thought ..I am in the East Coast so about 3000 miles, its $1 a mile and 0.53 cent for fuel surcharge so it's going to cost me about $4600 for shipping ...lol.

At that rate, it would literally be cheaper to rent a van and drive it yourself if you have vacation time to burn.
However if you are already spending $$10,000-12,000 on a tree, whats another $4,000?

 

[IzzyG]

@Applicative hit the nail on the head. It’s rarely about just top line revenue but also the expenses. Just the production team salary alone is, at the very least, low 6 digits(I believe there’s 3 of them now, 4 prior), and add another management/finance person and you’re past the 300k mark in payroll expenses alone. This doesn’t account for the “fair market value” of Ryan’s contribution as an employee and you’re likely in the 400k range. A year ago they also had 2 other pair of hands so before all is said and done, that's half a million in payroll.

I think it's pretty clear that the progress of Mirai has always been a means to an end; with each step performed to move towards the next one before ultimately getting to an end goal. Downside to this is the potential attrition rate of customers as the changes occur(for example with the recent Mirai Live changes). Every organization has a similar life cycle but very few execute it in a deliberate manner. There are some corrections to mentioned items though;

1: There are no more future intensives at Mirai(other than the ones scheduled prior to this year). There are private learning opportunities still(mainly at Mirai) but with the expectation of students executing the majority of the work on trees.

2: Other than a couple of private collections(and possibly assistance in public ones), Ryan does not plan on working on other people's trees moving forward. Obviously there’s exceptions to projects that fit his goals.

3: Equating students learning on trees there as free labor is probably a stretch. Theres only a handful of students that I’ve seen Ryan trusts to do actual Mirai-level work and the inherent risk of mistakes from students makes it a very unreliable consistent source of labor.

While I cannot speak for them, from my understanding theres 2 main goals now for Ryan/Mirai; conservation work and expanding his prolific body of work. Conservation efforts will be done via community outreach programs/public awareness (like the one they partnered up in CO recently), docuseries productions like Mirai in the Wild and direct efforts like the Olive tree project. Ryan’s bonsai efforts will focus mainly on high level trees/projects. General bonsai education (creating content for it or teaching) is no longer at the top of the priority list, but truth be told the Mirai Live library and the ongoing app evolution already provides this.

Would you mind sharing the name / contact info of this shipping company? Thank you.

Sure! Reach out to Mike at (503)580-4854

 

[Applicative]

I'm really interested in the direction. Ryan has done a lot for 10 years to raise the accessibility and popularity of bonsai in America. That alone is really great.

As an art form at the highest level - my personal view -

a naturalistic style of a ponderosa in an architectural repurposed concrete light, while interesting is not a forward progress at the level of being influential on the medium itself.

I've heard Ryan mentioned Mr. Kimura told him to go change bonsai in America. Another of kimuras students Ryan mentioned hit a dead end trying to explore water based plants or something.

I don't know what "it" is - but seeing Ryan dedicate to that artistic expression and having it evaluated on a global stage, is really exciting to me personally. Hope Ryan explodes with creativity and artistic expression in the medium.

 

[namnhi]

I read quite a few comments on... he is not doing this, he is not doing that, he stop doing streaming, no more selling trees etc. I wonder what he will be doing going forward.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I wonder what he will be doing going forward.

I asked chatGPT to Ryan Neil-ize a response. It did a wonderful job.

We're currently engaged in a collaborative dialogue that sits at the intersection of multiple disciplines and perspectives. This stage is characterized by a deliberate embrace of uncertainty and an ongoing analysis that is far from reaching a definitive endpoint. The elements at play are still in a state of flux, and as we unpack these layers, our understanding is in a fluid state of refinement.

We're consciously operating within a space that values the journey over a fixed destination. We're aware that the interplay of ideas, narratives, and emerging insights is still unfolding, and it's too early to distill these into a finalized vision or statement. As we continue to engage with this process, we're committed to remaining open, adaptable, and ready to pivot as new dimensions reveal themselves.

In short, we're in the thick of this creative and analytical process, and while we're making progress, we're not yet in a position to draw concrete conclusions. We're actively listening, observing, and adapting, and we expect the pieces to come together when the time is right. So, for now, we are in a mode of thoughtful exploration, staying tuned in as the picture gradually clarifies.

 

[vp999]

I asked chatGPT to Ryan Neil-ize a response. It did a wonderful job.

I read quite a few comments on... he is not doing this, he is not doing that, he stop doing streaming, no more selling trees etc. I wonder what he will be doing going forward.

He will be paid going around and gently touch people trees so they can claim that the tree was " Handled by Ryan Neil". Which increase the value 10X.

 

[namnhi]

I asked chatGPT to Ryan Neil-ize a response. It did a wonderful job.

Sounds almost like VP Harris answering question.

 

[Wood]

Sounds almost like VP Harris answering question.

Well, it's above fourth grade grammar and vocabulary, so it's definitely not Trump answering that question

Between some of Ryan's comments, his resume website of his "exhibitions" (https://www.r-neil.com/), and Izzy's comments, it sounds like Ryan is trying to go more studio-artist route, and do it for the sake of the art

 

[shohin_branches]

I asked chatGPT to Ryan Neil-ize a response. It did a wonderful job.

This is almost perfect it just needs the word nuance in it 8 more times

 

[Sansokuu]

I will never be able to spend this kind of money on something that could die for no apparent reason.

Exactly this. Whereas purchases for hobbies where you buy it once then have the thing forever sounds so reasonable in comparison. Like $1000 telescopes and $3000 cargo bikes.