BobbyLane
Imperial Masterpiece
as you guys say across the pond, 'haters gon hate' happens in all walks of life, when you have nice things. I wouldnt let something like that deter me from posting.
Another Mirai Tree Sale in a few days
- Thread starter rockm
- Start date
BobbyLane
Imperial Masterpiece
To counter that type of response all one would simply do is post a tree and detail a little bit of its history and how long you owned it, as most of us already do here. thats a minor. I think those types of responses come when you just rock up, post a highly valuble tree and write nothing about where it came from or how long you owned it or what youve done to it, just 'here look at this, look how good it is'
anyone can show up on a forum and claim to own this 'tree'. since its a bonsai forum we are here to post and discuss trees, people will ask questions if the relevent information isnt forthcoming, thats fair me thinks. as long as its respectful.and some of just like to see how trees started, if you had them that long, maybe someone can learn from one of your progressions or how you maintain top quality trees.
Leo in N E Illinois
The Professor
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Charging $100 to visit Mirai seems steep, but my local Chicago Botanic Garden is $30 for non member vehicles purchased at the gate. ($ 8 online for autos in advance). So entry fees to gardens is the norm lately.
I occasionally worked helping a wholesale orchid grower with the odd retail event, and occasional wholesale. It was funny, I could wrangle a $5000 or more wholesale sale in less time than it would take to sell a retail $20 orchid. It seemed for the $20 orchid, the "little old lady" wanted a piece of your soul too. For the $5000 sale, the customer was clear on what they wanted, it was mostly logistics, where they needed to back their van up to to pick up the trays of plants. Load them up and get them back on the road.
Given the extra "touch" required by retail sales, especially the extra time a novice would require, the visitor fee serves 2 purposes, eliminates majority of time consuming sales to novice hobby growers, and identifies the small group of growers that view $100 as "chump change", thus identifying them as being part of the higher income bracket that will paid the "Mirai price mark up" without viewing it as onerous.
Mirai is good for the rest of the Bonsai retailers, as long as they keep their prices a little cheaper than Mirai, they can increase their prices to cover recent inflation. Everybody makes money, and Ryan takes the hit for benchmarking prices. Win, win.
I occasionally worked helping a wholesale orchid grower with the odd retail event, and occasional wholesale. It was funny, I could wrangle a $5000 or more wholesale sale in less time than it would take to sell a retail $20 orchid. It seemed for the $20 orchid, the "little old lady" wanted a piece of your soul too. For the $5000 sale, the customer was clear on what they wanted, it was mostly logistics, where they needed to back their van up to to pick up the trays of plants. Load them up and get them back on the road.
Given the extra "touch" required by retail sales, especially the extra time a novice would require, the visitor fee serves 2 purposes, eliminates majority of time consuming sales to novice hobby growers, and identifies the small group of growers that view $100 as "chump change", thus identifying them as being part of the higher income bracket that will paid the "Mirai price mark up" without viewing it as onerous.
Mirai is good for the rest of the Bonsai retailers, as long as they keep their prices a little cheaper than Mirai, they can increase their prices to cover recent inflation. Everybody makes money, and Ryan takes the hit for benchmarking prices. Win, win.
BobbyLane
Imperial Masterpiece
Well tbh, I probably wouldnt pay the entrance fee myself, because I probably wouldnt go, just like I wouldnt pay for a teacher or workshop classes. Ive seen the trees at mirai on a few streams now, so im good, that satisfies me. but I cant knock a man who wants to charge people for stepping on his own property.
out of interest, how much are you guys paying for your bonsai teachers and workshops? just curious.... @Shogun610 I know you mentioned having a mentor/teacher, what are you paying, if you dont mind the question..
out of interest, how much are you guys paying for your bonsai teachers and workshops? just curious.... @Shogun610 I know you mentioned having a mentor/teacher, what are you paying, if you dont mind the question..
Cajunrider
Imperial Masterpiece
A while back I was visiting a very large nursery. I was looking around and found a tree I liked but it had no price tag. I wandered about but couldn't find a worker to inquire about the price. When I found one, he was serving a customer who was a buyer for a real estate developer. The buyer had land scape designer drawings in hand and the worker was walking behind the buyer with an iPad and appeared to be very busy recording. I got curious and followed them to see what's going on. In a span of 15-20 minutes, that guy bought more than $200,000 worth of huge 200 gal container trees and hundreds of other land scape trees and bushes. In that light, my buy on that little tree didn't mean much to the nursery. Still when I brought the tree to the cashier, I was treated well like all others. I had little wonder why that nursery was doing very well in business.
BobbyLane
Imperial Masterpiece
Its great customer service. no matter how large or how small the order, every customer should be treated as an equal.
Leo in N E Illinois
The Professor
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$600 to $1000 usd per day, seems normal for an 8 hour day of instruction with lunch break and travel accomodations.
In Milwaukee, we got a group of 16, divided ourselves into the Saturday 8 and the Sunday 8. We hired Ted Matson for 3 visits per year for 5 years, then took a break. Then later a slightly different group of us hired Peter Tea on a similar arrangement for 3 years.
About 8 people would be the maximum class size for an all day intensive in my opinion. Splitting the fee between 6 or 8 people still works out to $250 to $450 depending on air fares and other variables, for a full day of bonsai. All in all well worth doing, and having the same instructor come back 3 times a year, is really helpful, you do get to know each other.
We variously met at the local park district, and several member's homes.
Hidden Gardens has sponsored classes too taught by traveling artists. They are a retail bonsai oriented business in southwest burbs of Chicago.
In Milwaukee, we got a group of 16, divided ourselves into the Saturday 8 and the Sunday 8. We hired Ted Matson for 3 visits per year for 5 years, then took a break. Then later a slightly different group of us hired Peter Tea on a similar arrangement for 3 years.
About 8 people would be the maximum class size for an all day intensive in my opinion. Splitting the fee between 6 or 8 people still works out to $250 to $450 depending on air fares and other variables, for a full day of bonsai. All in all well worth doing, and having the same instructor come back 3 times a year, is really helpful, you do get to know each other.
We variously met at the local park district, and several member's homes.
Hidden Gardens has sponsored classes too taught by traveling artists. They are a retail bonsai oriented business in southwest burbs of Chicago.
Shogun610
Masterpiece
0.00, but I also work there as a student and outside of seasonal work on bonsai I do a lot of other tasks like putting stuff inside storage and watering etc , helping w greenhouse maintenance. I pay 45 annually for a club.
Ply
Mame
It's a real shame. Perhaps aside from Walter Pall you probably have the best collection of anyone on here. I've seen your collection on Reddit, but I don't frequent there all that often. And especially since you're also getting 1 on 1 coaching from guys like Bjorn I would've loved for you to share your progress on the trees.
If you ever change your mind about posting here, you have my blessing.
namnhi
Masterpiece
I would also charge zero for visiting if and only if am a collector. This is a business which will need to have money coming in for the expenses to run it... employees, rent etc.
@People, You can't apply the same concept from a collector to a business owner.
Shogun610
Masterpiece
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
On a related subject, there is a local nursery here in Charlotte that I was impressed with, and I was going to do a write-up on them. It was bigger than some (but not huge), and independently owned and operated. I wanted to interview the owner and walk the nursery with him. I said no longer than a half hour, told him about the web site, mentioned 25,000 members, etc. His "manager of social media" got back to me and said he agreed to meet with me, but then one day before the meeting he emailed and said he was too busy and maybe we could reschedule for some time in the future... TBD. So I guess the nursery business is doing VERY well... at least in Charlotte.
ChristianDGreat
Shohin
I have no problem Ryan Neil charging $100, thats his choice.
Theres probably demand for people who want to see his garden and he just take advantage of it.
Me I appreciate all these people contribution to the Practice/Art from Walter, Bjorn, Ryan and upto Bonsai Nut, Van Fleet, Smoke and so on.
Spread positivity and not hate/jealousy. Life is too short for hate and rant.
Theres probably demand for people who want to see his garden and he just take advantage of it.
Me I appreciate all these people contribution to the Practice/Art from Walter, Bjorn, Ryan and upto Bonsai Nut, Van Fleet, Smoke and so on.
Spread positivity and not hate/jealousy. Life is too short for hate and rant.
BobbyLane
Imperial Masterpiece
from watching these I get the feeling the garden was built with viewing in mind, and to have people engage with the garden, he talks about it here. in response to what someone suggested that they might not want too many people there. seems quite the opposite
What a treat it would be to see your garden in person but thanks for letting us see glimpses of it.
Srt8madness
Omono
Who pissed in your cheerios?
Sansokuu
Chumono
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Speaking of amazing gardens to visit without a fee, if anyone is in the Taipei, Taiwan area, check out Amy Liang’s garden. We got to visit for free (after a lot of email poking with her translator) and it was a fantastic visit. Had to buy one of her books of course.
www.bonsaiempire.com
valavanisbonsaiblog.com
Amy Liang Bonsai museum - Bonsai Empire
On November 3rd, 2017, the “Amy Liang Bonsai Museum” was officially opened. The museum is located in Taipei (Taiwan) and boasts an excellent and varied collecti...
Amy Liang Bonsai Museum– Small, Shohin & Mame Bonsai
International bonsai master Professor Amy Liang has a special love for her small size bonsai which are featured in a small enclosed garden in her newly opened Amy Liang Bonsai Museum in Taipei, Tai…
valavanisbonsaiblog.com
Mike Westervelt
Chumono
Workshops vary but $100-150 plus material is what I've paid, studying more extensively with a professional is typically $250-300 per day for 2-3 days in a row several times a year.
Potawatomi13
Imperial Masterpiece
Curious if Japanese charge to see their trees
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SgtPilko
Mame
Hey Bobby, just for a UK example I pay approx £120-£150 depending on group size (usually 4-6 people) for a full day 9-5 of hands-on teaching here in London. I only do about 3 a year but I love them. There are cheaper, beginner teaching settings out there that ive never been to where you can twist up a little juniper for £50 in 2hrs, but not so interesting for me.
