atlarsenal
Omono
Don’t do it @Woocash! Your blood pressure will go up and we will have to read another dozen post on how those trees aren’t worth it either.You can always buy from Michael
Mirai tree sale
- Thread starter Jluke33
- Start date
Kadebe
Chumono
Do I hear you announcing a sale?
meushi
Mame
There are a few new members, but they quickly went into the 300+ range once we took them to some of the nice places. There are quite a few older members who never spent money for good material and still cling to the early 1980s view of bonsai (grotesque trunk line, no taper, topiary-style foliage).
Silly example, at The Trophy 2020... I was planning on spending about 300 on a prunus mume or princess persimmon, but didn't find any I fancied. We were supposed to have a scots pine workshop later that year, so I bought a Pinus sylvestris pre-bonsai from a German seller. That pine had a decent nebari, some taper, 2" thick trunk at the base, a few potential apex, ramification close to the trunk and nice short needles. I paid 70 for it and took it to the next club meeting where many members thought I paid way too much for it... it was actually cheaper than raw nursery stock in my area.
The week before The Trophy, I had also spent a couple hundreds on a raw olive in a 30 gallons pot.
Seems some complaining about these thousand dollar trees are also not okay paying $18 to learn the history of these trees. Heck, there’s a free trial. You can watch the stream, help choose the actual pot from the store and see its tag. You’re simply not going to get a tree potted in a $1,000 container for less.
If you don’t want to pay for his trees, good news is he can’t make you. He’s offering Youtube videos at your price point—for free.
Life is not a zero sum game. Ryan’s success doesn’t really affect your day to day in any way. Economy 101: if these trees sold within the hour they were underpriced for the target market, which happens to exclude you. Brace yourself, prices are going up next year.
If you don’t want to pay for his trees, good news is he can’t make you. He’s offering Youtube videos at your price point—for free.
Life is not a zero sum game. Ryan’s success doesn’t really affect your day to day in any way. Economy 101: if these trees sold within the hour they were underpriced for the target market, which happens to exclude you. Brace yourself, prices are going up next year.
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Funny, you should make that comparison. We were on vacation this week and I absolutely fell in love with a dove gray Coach purse. Even the "supposedly" 70% off, I thought to myself for that amount I could buy a decent sort of tree and left the store empty handed.
Shogun610
Masterpiece
Or Bjorn’s lolYou can always buy from Michael
Potawatomi13
Imperial Masterpiece
Without question something that is exhorbitantly WAY overpriced!
Woocash
Omono
Ok, tagged back in. Most of these trees are fractions of the cost of the Mirai ones, but are not a fraction of the quality. That’s the thing. The mirai ones are priced for 33 sycophants, not 33 Joe bloggs.
Woocash
Omono
“The story of the tree”. Give me a break. You mean just because its on a live stream makes it worth more? I think people should just reevaluate what value is. Clearly fame and recognisability holds too much water for some.
Woocash
Omono
To be fair, I went over and looked at them again a bit closer this time. I did skim over some of them incredulously the first time because I couldn’t believe most of the prices. Of course, you are correct that there are a handful of trees in the selection that will be show stoppers, but I still maintain that it is only a selection, whereas their prices don’t reflect the jump in quality necessarily.How many RMJs, Ponderosas, coast cypress and Limber Pine bonsai have you actually seen in the U.K.? Do you know what kind of work goes into any of those trees? This one remains unsold at $6,200
Limber Pine No. 3
An icon of Mirai, this literati limber pine defies many bonsai rules, and in that defiance, sits well in the wonderfully formed rinka-shaped yama aki pot from Japan. The context of the combination being a significant part of the tree and containers relationship. This tree has been repotted...goods.bonsaimirai.com
It is about as high quality as collected trees come. Limber pine is not all that common as bonsai. A specimen with attributes (excellent trunk, deadwood, and elegant apex) like this one has don't come along that often. It's been in training 10 years. Worth every penny of that $6,200.
If you've worked with some of these species, you better understand why some trees are priced the way they are and why people pay for them. You don't see any "show stopper" trees in the thumbnail pics. I see more than a few. Pictures on a screen never do trees justice.
Take bald cypress, for example. I’ve seen better or with more potential on Zach Smith’s site for way less than that. It’s merely the online bonsai play along which drives the price.
I just wonder how many of the “cheap” trees were purchased by subscribers simply to say they own a Mirai tree and I wonder how many of their wives/husbands know how much they paid.
Again, not my money, not my market. Am I jealous? Far from it, but 25ish of 33 people willing to spend over the odds is hardly a good sample size for what is good value of the market as a whole.
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
Joking aside, I wonder how Mirai's sale influences the sale of bonsai at all major sites?
I noticed a number of trees disappearing from Bjorn's site, and here we are talking about Jason's. Perhaps it is just a lead up to the National Show, but it seems like there is a flurry of activity everywhere!
I noticed a number of trees disappearing from Bjorn's site, and here we are talking about Jason's. Perhaps it is just a lead up to the National Show, but it seems like there is a flurry of activity everywhere!
Drewski
Mame
PeaceLoveBonsai
Chumono
National show, for sure. This is Christmastime for the American bonsai industry. Potters are pottering. Artists are prepping, and hobbyist are spending. The bonsai scene in the US is alive and well.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
I can't speak for MIRAI but if I were facing your options here is what I would do; Plan on going to the National show in Sept. and have Ryan ship the tree with him, it'll cost you about 400 bucks but then you can pick it up yourself.
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
National Show is closed... all tickets sold
Woocash
Omono
Why would you not use a tree of a comparable standard to decide if another was overpriced?
choppychoppy
Chumono
There are other pros that are selling trees at this level and price just not online.... TRUST ME
smc
Sapling
let's break this down for a moment.
Take the $350 tree from Zach's website (great tree)
Now add a $400-500 pot to it - that brings you to $750-850.
The Mirai website says the tree has been in training for 8 years. So add in 8 years of time and labor. Not to mention a business has general overhead (utilities, etc.). All that has to be recouped before Mirai earns a profit.
Now add in need to earn a profit so that owners of Mirai can live a decent life. & remember that profit is taxed.
It doesn't take much math to add up from pre-bonsai tree in plastic pot to several thousand dollars. You need to stop looking at this from perspective of trees should be cheap for you and instead think about it as if you were a business owner who has invested significant capital & effort to build a brand and is now trying to live off your hard work.
And yes - buyers are willing to pay a premium for styling from Mirai (nothing wrong with that) + are willing to pay a premium to skip 8 years of training & not start from scratch (also nothing wrong with that).
There is a reason Zach's tree (which is fantastic, love his material) is cheaper. Someone needs to put in 8 years of effort + has to buy a pot + there is less overhead expense vs. Mirai to recoup. It's all business and math.
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badatusernames
Omono
Next up: bonsai blockchain
Ryan just starts selling NFTs of a picture of a bonsai, and ships the actual bonsai separately. As the picture/tree is sold on, he continues to get paid a % of the resale price. Prices come down as he no longer needs to capture the total value of the tree at initial sale. Profit!
Or we could just pump and dump and then we could afford the $14k trees anyways
Ryan just starts selling NFTs of a picture of a bonsai, and ships the actual bonsai separately. As the picture/tree is sold on, he continues to get paid a % of the resale price. Prices come down as he no longer needs to capture the total value of the tree at initial sale. Profit!
Or we could just pump and dump and then we could afford the $14k trees anyways
coh
Imperial Masterpiece
OK, let's summarize the sale at this point.
It looks like 7 trees are still available, so 26 sold. From what I could tell, it looks like out of those 26 trees that sold, 4 of them cost more than $5000. Those were:
1) Rocky Mtn Juniper for $14,000
2) Limber Pine $7,200
3) J Maple for $5,800
4) Ponderosa Pine $5,400
Of the trees that remain:
1) Rocky Mtn Juniper $10,500
2) Rocky Mtn Juniper $9,500
3) Rocky Mtn Juniper $6,400
4) Limber Pine $6,800
5) Limber Pine $6,200 (former National Exhibition tree)
6 )Pom $2,600
7) Pom $2,200
So I think we can see that $5,000 is kind of the "break point" price-wise.
I'm quite surprised that neither of the 2 remaining Limber Pines have sold - one was in the National Show in 2018. Both look to me to be good values for someone willing to spend that much for a tree. I'd strongly consider the tall one if I was in that camp but that is a huge step up for me in terms of cost. Also not sure how well Limber Pine would do in my climate. Maybe that is what is hold others back as well.
Other surprise - that second trident forest sold. I think it's a nice group of trees in a nice pot, but seemed over-priced. Then again, it was less than $5,000.
Not surprised that those two pomegranates are still unsold. They are not attractive to me. Maybe I'm not seeing the future potential.
It looks like 7 trees are still available, so 26 sold. From what I could tell, it looks like out of those 26 trees that sold, 4 of them cost more than $5000. Those were:
1) Rocky Mtn Juniper for $14,000
2) Limber Pine $7,200
3) J Maple for $5,800
4) Ponderosa Pine $5,400
Of the trees that remain:
1) Rocky Mtn Juniper $10,500
2) Rocky Mtn Juniper $9,500
3) Rocky Mtn Juniper $6,400
4) Limber Pine $6,800
5) Limber Pine $6,200 (former National Exhibition tree)
6 )Pom $2,600
7) Pom $2,200
So I think we can see that $5,000 is kind of the "break point" price-wise.
I'm quite surprised that neither of the 2 remaining Limber Pines have sold - one was in the National Show in 2018. Both look to me to be good values for someone willing to spend that much for a tree. I'd strongly consider the tall one if I was in that camp but that is a huge step up for me in terms of cost. Also not sure how well Limber Pine would do in my climate. Maybe that is what is hold others back as well.
Other surprise - that second trident forest sold. I think it's a nice group of trees in a nice pot, but seemed over-priced. Then again, it was less than $5,000.
Not surprised that those two pomegranates are still unsold. They are not attractive to me. Maybe I'm not seeing the future potential.
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