For BVF and Rockm...a tree without potential?

[Poink88]

duly slapped.

Sorry Judy. I just want to set that straight and really want to concentrate on whether the technique has room for bonsai application and if anyone can think of ways to improve/modify it (as little as I shared).

I really want to start people into thinking of other ways/means to address common problematic situations we encounter with common so-so stock. Then maybe, it will open a new "source" of potentially good/accessible/affordable stock for everyone.

 

[Anthony]

Dario,

just grow it. Looks fine.
Good Afternoon.
Anthony

 

[Paulpash]

Why does everyone want it to heal - it won't look convincing??? Extend the shari down the trunk and into the soil line between the 2 major roots at the front and let it rot then in 5 years use a stiff brush or blow torch to get rid of the rotten material. You can use wood hardener if you want at this stage.

Tilt more to the left to use the right branch as your apex and let it grow untouched all year. Apart from the leader shear everything back to your intended silhouette twice a year then do more selective pruning in Winter to establish a base branch structure.

My advice is what Walter (I think) did with his impossible tree. I think I am stalking Mr Pall's articles too much now...

 

[Bill S]

I maintain that IF a seed have potential, why won't the top of a sapling have one?

The seed can be manipulated from it's first days, and unless you can go back in time to set features into that layered top, the answer becomes apparent.

 

[Poink88]

The seed can be manipulated from it's first days, and unless you can go back in time to set features into that layered top, the answer becomes apparent.

True but out of all the bonsai we have...how many came from seed that was manipulated from start you think (percent wise)? I would hazard to guess 99%+ were as produced by mother nature then man intervened later (chopped, wired, bent, etc.). Same is true with branches...it is up to the person layering where and how to take it. At least he has a choice (the way I see it). The advantage, he saved maybe a year or more than starting from seed.

It really boils down to how you want to see it...half full or half empty?

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

I wouldn't have bothered with it...today. 20 years ago, I probably would have tried.

With limited time and bench space, I try to be selective and only acquire something if it has the potential to improve the overall quality of my collection. The last tree I bought was that big shimpaku from Brent in Dec '11.

Think what you could do with a collected Ashe juniper with a great trunk in 5 years...some of Ryan's show trees were in the wild 5 years ago, but the material had more/quicker potential to start with.

Been away for a while, so just scanned the thread. You asked how long it would take to develop it? Depends on what you see in the tree. A carved out, spartan design on a vigorous tree might produce something passable in 5-7 years. Adding taper and movement through another section of trunk, then building brwnches would easily take 10-20 years. Didn't see what kind of tree it is, which is always a game changer in terms of timing and design.

 

[Poink88]

Thanks Brian. It is cedar elm and I am doing this more to learn and explore possibilities. There are lots of stumps out there (or trees than can be chopped to one LOL) that if it can be "fixed" I would love to learn how.

I know so well about bench space and I am sure I will eventually purge as (I hope) my collection improves over the years but for now...playing with items with minimal potential is part of my bonsai journey. I actually find it more challenging to be honest. Crazy me, as Smoke alluded to...Dr. Frankenstein.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Your work has added movement and taper. It will be interesting to see how it responds, hopefully thrives.

 

[Poink88]

Thanks Brian.

I promise to keep you all posted...whether it thrives or dies. I will post progression photo like you are doing with your trident maple.

As mentioned earlier...I have 2 subjects (collected a few weeks ago) in line waiting their turn next year, IF they are strong enough then. One have tons of buds already...the other just have a couple sorry looking buds.

 

[Poink88]

An update pic of my Frankentree taken today.

View attachment 32964

 

[october]

Well look at that... "IT'S ALIVE....ALIVE...".

Looking good... I look at this and I see a very nice future bonsai. One thing though.. This is literally going to be a decade before it will be ready for show. First, the root ball will need to be trained over the years to gradually get it into an appropriate size pot. Simultaneously you will be creating primary branch structure, secondary branch structure and finally tertiery branches.

Also, if that isn't enough. Leaf reduction.. Yup, have to work on those leaves to get them small and in scale with the trunk.. Lots of work to be done. However, I think that the big, structural part has been set.

This will be an interesting long term project.

Rob

 

[fourteener]

I found this in the trash heap of my favorite nursery. It is a maple that is about the size of a two liter bottle. Last summer I found some worms living in it so I carved it all out. I wish I had a photo from another angle. A little less than half of the circumference is what remains. It seems to be healthy. I'll see if the leaves will ever constrict.

My inspiration for this tree was a life size tree, huge trunk rotted out to halfway up. Then a broom style tree on up. It'll take awhile, but I got time.

It's not a waste if your vision for it inspires you. If its another pain in the butt on your bench, sell it to someone with a vision for it!!

 

[fourteener]

Here's my inspiration pic.

 

[Poink88]

Well look at that... "IT'S ALIVE....ALIVE...".

Looking good... I look at this and I see a very nice future bonsai. One thing though.. This is literally going to be a decade before it will be ready for show. First, the root ball will need to be trained over the years to gradually get it into an appropriate size pot. Simultaneously you will be creating primary branch structure, secondary branch structure and finally tertiery branches.

Also, if that isn't enough. Leaf reduction.. Yup, have to work on those leaves to get them small and in scale with the trunk.. Lots of work to be done. However, I think that the big, structural part has been set.

This will be an interesting long term project.

Rob

Thanks Rob. To avoid anymore arguments, lets just watch how this progresses. If it takes 10 years, so be it. Just note that I will try to push it to get there ASAP.

 

[catfish chapstick]

Looks like it had potential all along. Ten years isn't really all that long in bonsai. How long is it supposed to take to get collected material to show-level?

 

[Bill S]

Bonhe. Thank you...for me it is an opportunity. If say Kimura, Bill V, Walter P, Ryan N, Boone, etc. does the same...the impact might not be the same as coming from a (self taught) newbie like me. Other newbies won't have an excuse that it was done by a "professional". Those who are in it longer hopefully will be challenged to try it.

Hopefully they will be inspired and break the notion that bonsai is this mystic hobby that needs decades to produce a decent result.

This will either be my ugly duckling to a swan or my humiliation...that is if I don't kill it first LOL.

I am still in the middle of the thread, and feel the need to interject at this statement.

I am saying humiliation. You seem to have some grand illusion of grandeur that you , one, you will create a masterpiece, and two, no one else has ever done it.

I don't believe anyone told you, not to do it, that it can't be done, although it seems like that it what you want, so you can prove them wrong.

You sound very smug, and I will dare you to turn this into a masterpiece in less than a decade, but I feel that it will take you half that long to understand what goes into the making of a masterpiece, at least. Then you figure out how to erase a bunch of years of mistakes, and proceed to apply those corrections, maybe four or five years, then on to refinement, etc. etc.. Point being there is a better way. Learn to accept advise, and honest critique for what it is, offers of hey learn from my mistakes.

If you think that you are the first to do something like this, then it probably is the grand illusion. Just because it isn't on the net doesn't mean much. making a video of the first guy trying to invent the square wheel isn't going to sell a lot of tickets.

Yamadori in many, many instances can be free

 

[A Random User]

I am still in the middle of the thread, and feel the need to interject at this statement.

I am saying humiliation. You seem to have some grand illusion of grandeur that you , one, you will create a masterpiece, and two, no one else has ever done it.

I don't believe anyone told you, not to do it, that it can't be done, although it seems like that it what you want, so you can prove them wrong.

You sound very smug, and I will dare you to turn this into a masterpiece in less than a decade, but I feel that it will take you half that long to understand what goes into the making of a masterpiece, at least. Then you figure out how to erase a bunch of years of mistakes, and proceed to apply those corrections, maybe four or five years, then on to refinement, etc. etc.. Point being there is a better way. Learn to accept advise, and honest critique for what it is, offers of hey learn from my mistakes.

If you think that you are the first to do something like this, then it probably is the grand illusion. Just because it isn't on the net doesn't mean much. making a video of the first guy trying to invent the square wheel isn't going to sell a lot of tickets.

Yamadori in many, many instances can be free

Sorry,
but I find this all rather funny...
Dario, is just trying out things, granted they may not be
necessarily "new ideas" in the History of the World... Or
even matter much to you... but for him they are, as well as
for a lot of people...

The whole premise for this thread seems to me to be one,
that folks are always telling what can and cannot be done,
ALL THE WHILE DARIO IS DOING IT...

You sit here and pass judgement on the him, and try to
insult him for doing exactly what we "All" should be doing...
Continualy looking for a better way to do things...

This is the whole point, isn't it ??? We post because no
matter how long someone has been doing something...
There is still room for improvement, and learning.
Everyday should be spent striving to learn something
new. For If not, one is not progressing...
They are just sitting of their "Pretty Princess Chair".

DARIO KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK !!! and thanks for
posting.

 

[Bill S]

Based on the statement I stand my ground. You flip flopped here and there since, but still tickle that you will do it ASAP which means who know?

Don't think it came down to no potential - mostly this "Hopefully they will be inspired and break the notion that bonsai is this mystic hobby that needs decades to produce a decent result."
My answer to this is you could be absolutely correct, but I see a high mortality rate, is that a good trade off, i don't think so.

 

[A Random User]

Based on the statement I stand my ground. You flip flopped here and there since, but still tickle that you will do it ASAP which means who know?

Don't think it came down to no potential - mostly this "Hopefully they will be inspired and break the notion that bonsai is this mystic hobby that needs decades to produce a decent result."
My answer to this is you could be absolutely correct, but I see a high mortality rate, is that a good trade off, i don't think so.

I am assuming you where addressing me ?
Sorry, but it is hard for me to understand
what any of this "actually" means... It is
a little on the meandering side.

I will address the only part that I think I get,
and that is that I believe you are saying that he
will loose alot of trees due to death, if he
does not do what you and the others say ???
Is this correct ???

If so... my answer would be, why do you care ???
He is only working on material that you and the others
say he shouldn't waste his time with ???

 

[Poink88]

Based on the statement I stand my ground. You flip flopped here and there since, but still tickle that you will do it ASAP which means who know?

Don't think it came down to no potential - mostly this "Hopefully they will be inspired and break the notion that bonsai is this mystic hobby that needs decades to produce a decent result."
My answer to this is you could be absolutely correct, but I see a high mortality rate, is that a good trade off, i don't think so.

I do not think I ever flip flopped...I've ALWAYS maintained to do things faster (if I can).

How much is high mortality if I may ask?