Diving In Feet First

Ang3lfir3

Omono
Messages
1,287
Reaction score
28
Location
Bremerton, WA
USDA Zone
8b
while you are not making any friends fast... what people have been trying to explain to you is that bonsai soil for the most part looks more like this:
IMAG0148.jpg


than what you have planted these in ... now I am not telling you to use what I use.... use whatever makes you happy... what I am suggesting here .... is that WE (my wife Vic and I) have had GREAT SUCCESS using a soil mix such as this (we amend with a few other aggregates like pumice and kanuma as needed) .... many other individuals have also had great success with a soil mix such as this ... including but not limited to.... almost all of the professional bonsai artists in America today (well maybe the world) .... don't take our word for it ...

hope that is helpful to you .... next time you repot you might want to consider it.... that is if you think it might be helpful to your trees to have strong healthy vibrant root systems....
 

milehigh_7

Mister 500,000
Messages
4,930
Reaction score
6,137
Location
Somewhere South of Phoenix
USDA Zone
Hot
LOL ol' Geoff is even more hot headed than I used to be! LOL Let'em learn the hard way. Fortunately, for him if you can't grow plants in SoCal you should pick a different hobby. What a contrast to another thread were the guy was actually teachable. What would the Nut house be without a loose canon or 2?
 

goosetown

Mame
Messages
180
Reaction score
2
Location
Los Angeles, CA
USDA Zone
10
while you are not making any friends fast... what people have been trying to explain to you is that bonsai soil for the most part looks more like this:
IMAG0148.jpg


than what you have planted these in ... now I am not telling you to use what I use.... use whatever makes you happy... what I am suggesting here .... is that WE (my wife Vic and I) have had GREAT SUCCESS using a soil mix such as this (we amend with a few other aggregates like pumice and kanuma as needed) .... many other individuals have also had great success with a soil mix such as this ... including but not limited to.... almost all of the professional bonsai artists in America today (well maybe the world) .... don't take our word for it ...

hope that is helpful to you .... next time you repot you might want to consider it.... that is if you think it might be helpful to your trees to have strong healthy vibrant root systems....

OK, perhaps I can use this response in particular to highlight, once again, what's so frustrating about coming here. Because I know you're genuinely trying to be helpful, and I appreciate you taking the time out of your day to write to me and explain the soil.

Here's the thing: I know of this soil. I am aware that many, many, many bonsai enthusiasts - masters and novices alike - use it and love it. In fact, this very type of soil is available at the nursery I frequent. I just don't use it. I'm not against anyone using it. I just don't because I've had success so far with something else and I see no reason to fix what isn't broke. That's it.

What I bristle at is someone looking at a picture and saying first, "It looks like you used potting soil," me refuting that because it's, you know, completely incorrect, and then telling me that my plants are in trouble because my soil is too organic anyway. And then telling me that if I'm not using some other kind of soil, I'm making some huge mistake. It's annoying, it's grating, and based on the results I've had over the last year and the training I've been given, it's plainly incorrect.

There are eight - EIGHT - different kinds of bonsai potting soil at the nursery where I shop. I'm sure there are dozens more in existence. The guy who's been helping me - who, again, has been doing this for thirty years - mixed my current soil for me this morning and sold it to me for $8. It was suggested that he was merely trying to bilk me out of my money. If that were the case, why all the time and effort for what was one of the lower-priced mixes? Could it be because I currently have the same kind of junipers on my porch in the same kind of soil and they're thriving? Could it be because this cultivator has experience with these types of plants in this type of environment and he's comfortable making the recommendation? I'm not being flippant. These are the question I asked when all anyone could focus on was the soil, and some were so miffed that I would DARE question a stranger on the Internet based on the advice of a professional I've been working with for quite some time. It didn't matter what I said at that point - everything I did was wrong, every material I used or technique I attempted was incorrect.

Here's why I use the soil I use: obviously, the climate in Southern California is different than it is in Washington or Virginia. While you have seasons and humidity, we (for the most part) lack seasons and humidity. We get, on average, 315 days of sun per year in an arid climate. Thus, my junipers require a soil that holds a bit more moisture than normal so that I'm not constantly watering and eventually OVERWATERING them. This soil is simply an easy solution. I water regularly, I mist when I need to, and so far the larger trees I own have been coming along very, very well. If they weren't, I'd certainly be more amenable to switching up my product. But they are. And I don't feel like I should have to explain the intricacies of that to someone who comes in, asking few if any questions, and decides from a couple pictures that I'm doing it wrong.

Perhaps one day I'll try the mix you're talking about, and perhaps it will produce as good or even better results. That would be fantastic. But right now, I like the soil I'm using. I like the way it looks, I like the way it keeps the trees. As long as they keep thriving, how is what I'm doing wrong?

What I was hoping for today was some constructive criticism on the way I took stock plants and repotted and pruned them. I still have no idea if I did a good job or if I totally screwed it all up, because all anyone wanted to talk about was the non-issue of the soil and then gloat about their Big Boy Pants. If I HAD used the "wrong" soil, I'd very much wanted to have known that. But I didn't, and because I'm new at this, people have now confused my pushing back as "not wanting to learn" or being a "loose cannon". The fact of the matter is that there are people in here like you, Ang3lfir3, who are actually interested in teaching those of us who have much to learn, and then there are windbags who just want to prattle on and call themselves King For a Day. And unfortunately, my experience has been that the latter far outnumber the former.
 

Redwood Ryan

Masterpiece
Messages
4,555
Reaction score
2,583
Location
Virginia
USDA Zone
7A
Seriously man, relax. I see no reason why you're getting so uptight. Look at it from our point of view. The soil you potted the trees into DOESN'T look like bonsai soil, form the angles you shot it DOES look like potting soil. Had you gotten a better shot of it we wouldn't have questioned it. All this started due to comments over your soil. You over-reacted (sorry bud, but you did) and now are refusing to take anyones advice.

No one wanted to make themselves feel like "King For a Day", no one said you were an idiot. You ASSumed we thought you were an idiot, then blasted us for trying to tell you otherwise.

If you really think the reason people are acting the way they are toward you is because "you're new", you're seriously wrong. We get tons of newcomers here, none have reacted to good advice like you have however. Rockm, october, and mcpesq817 are some of the most helpful and knowledgeable on the site.

So please, step back, take a deep breath, and chill. We aren't going to hurt you.
 

goosetown

Mame
Messages
180
Reaction score
2
Location
Los Angeles, CA
USDA Zone
10
Seriously man, relax. I see no reason why you're getting so uptight. Look at it from our point of view. The soil you potted the trees into DOESN'T look like bonsai soil, form the angles you shot it DOES look like potting soil. Had you gotten a better shot of it we wouldn't have questioned it. All this started due to comments over your soil. You over-reacted (sorry bud, but you did) and now are refusing to take anyones advice.

No one wanted to make themselves feel like "King For a Day", no one said you were an idiot. You ASSumed we thought you were an idiot, then blasted us for trying to tell you otherwise.

If you really think the reason people are acting the way they are toward you is because "you're new", you're seriously wrong. We get tons of newcomers here, none have reacted to good advice like you have however. Rockm, october, and mcpesq817 are some of the most helpful and knowledgeable on the site.

So please, step back, take a deep breath, and chill. We aren't going to hurt you.

Please, God, go away.
 

Redwood Ryan

Masterpiece
Messages
4,555
Reaction score
2,583
Location
Virginia
USDA Zone
7A
Please, God, go away.


Aw what's wrong? I'm right and you don't want to admit it. You know, I was originally feeling bad for you. Now that I realize you truly are an asinine (Google that, you're tiny brain won't know what it means) a$$hole, I can only hope that you get banned. Oh BNut....

And no, I won't go away. Something tells me I'll stick around a lot longer than you.

Uh, did anyone see a reason why I should've been attacked? I didn't insult the loose cannon did I??
 
Last edited:

goosetown

Mame
Messages
180
Reaction score
2
Location
Los Angeles, CA
USDA Zone
10
(Google that, you're tiny brain won't know what it means)

Don't you hate when you REALLY try to slam someone for being stupid and then you completely forget which version of your/you're to use, making you look even stupider? And then you still don't catch in when you're editing? That's just no fun for anyone. I take absolutely no pleasure in pointing that out.
 

Redwood Ryan

Masterpiece
Messages
4,555
Reaction score
2,583
Location
Virginia
USDA Zone
7A
Don't you hate when you REALLY try to slam someone for being stupid and then you completely forget which version of your/you're to use, making you look even stupider? And then you still don't catch in when you're editing? That's just no fun for anyone. I take absolutely no pleasure in pointing that out.

OH NO IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD. YOU CAUGHT ME. UGH WHAT AM I GOING TO DO NOW.

Sorry, it's called a typo. The rest are on point. Chill out kid, seriously. Then again, I'm going to miss when YOU'RE gone. I do like how that was your only comeback, though.

Geeze seriously. Calm down, troll.

You still honestly had no reason to attack me. That's why no one here likes you. I said nothing that should've pissed you off. YOUR short temper needs to be fixed.
 
Last edited:

TheSteve

Chumono
Messages
503
Reaction score
15
Location
Sw Washington
USDA Zone
8b
some things never change. sigh.

PS: You're not the only one on here from southern California.
PPS: Unless you have nothing over 3 feet high in a goodly radius of you it is impossible anywhere on Earth for an East facing structure to have direct sunlight for 9 hours.
 

Ang3lfir3

Omono
Messages
1,287
Reaction score
28
Location
Bremerton, WA
USDA Zone
8b
I'm not going to tell you not to use what you are using .... it seems to be working for you in a fashion that makes you happy ....

I am fairly well versed in the weather of California (having many bonsai friends living there and having visited the areas many times) I can tell you that a mix similar to what I have shown would be usable in that area ... if you decided you wanted to in the future ... it does require a bit more watering but its nothing that is impossible ...

re: over watering .... good news... its pretty much impossible to overwater in a more traditional bonsai mix... once the particles reach saturation no more water is absorbed and all the remaining liquid simply exists through the bottom of the pot .... leaving a nice open mixture for good air circulation, etc ..... Like i said i won't tell you to use something different, but I will provide you with what information I have .... what you choose to do with it ... that is up to you ...

as to why the soil has been a big topic.... that's pretty simple... it is one of the most important aspects of creating happy healthy strong bonsai which are easy to work on, recover faster and develop quicker ... all of these are goals in bonsai and it all starts with some pretty simple things; light, soil and water .... so in this case soil was the one thing that seems to be out of place ... (i get that what you are using works for you... so that's that)

now, if this works for you and you are happy with the results and the rate at which the trees develop etc .... then keep heading that direction ... if that ever changes and you want to examine alternatives.... I am sure there are many people here (especially Californians ) who might just be able to provide you with advise gained from lots of trial, error and loss .....
 

goosetown

Mame
Messages
180
Reaction score
2
Location
Los Angeles, CA
USDA Zone
10
OH NO IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD. YOU CAUGHT ME. UGH WHAT AM I GOING TO DO NOW.

Sorry, it's called a typo. The rest are on point. Chill out kid, seriously. Then again, I'm going to miss when YOU'RE gone. I do like how that was your only comeback, though.

Geeze seriously. Calm down, troll.

You still honestly had no reason to attack me. That's why no one here likes you. I said nothing that should've pissed you off. YOUR short temper needs to be fixed.

I didn't attack you. I begged you to go away. Because if there's one more, "Dude, brah, totally chillax in here, you're way crazy angry and you're harshing the mellow, bud," you're going to have to try to start a drum circle, and no one likes the guy who tries to start the drum circle.

Once again, I didn't attack you. I'm not angry. You're annoying. I tried ignoring you, and then I implored you to go away. Neither works. So this is my life now. I'll find a way to carry on.

What the hell is it with people from Virginia on this board?
 

Redwood Ryan

Masterpiece
Messages
4,555
Reaction score
2,583
Location
Virginia
USDA Zone
7A
I didn't attack you. I begged you to go away. Because if there's one more, "Dude, brah, totally chillax in here, you're way crazy angry and you're harshing the mellow, bud," you're going to have to try to start a drum circle, and no one likes the guy who tries to start the drum circle.

Once again, I didn't attack you. I'm not angry. You're annoying. I tried ignoring you, and then I implored you to go away. Neither works. So this is my life now. I'll find a way to carry on.

What the hell is it with people from Virginia on this board?

No one likes the guy that acts like a complete arrogant ass either.

And you're probably the only one who doesn't like the peaceful guy. I'm just trying to get you to calm down while you sit there cutting your trees blindlessly and crying about why people are insulting your soil selection.

It's not "people from Virginia", it's stupid assholes that think they know everything.
 

goosetown

Mame
Messages
180
Reaction score
2
Location
Los Angeles, CA
USDA Zone
10
I'm not going to tell you not to use what you are using .... it seems to be working for you in a fashion that makes you happy ....

I am fairly well versed in the weather of California (having many bonsai friends living there and having visited the areas many times) I can tell you that a mix similar to what I have shown would be usable in that area ... if you decided you wanted to in the future ... it does require a bit more watering but its nothing that is impossible ...

re: over watering .... good news... its pretty much impossible to overwater in a more traditional bonsai mix... once the particles reach saturation no more water is absorbed and all the remaining liquid simply exists through the bottom of the pot .... leaving a nice open mixture for good air circulation, etc ..... Like i said i won't tell you to use something different, but I will provide you with what information I have .... what you choose to do with it ... that is up to you ...

as to why the soil has been a big topic.... that's pretty simple... it is one of the most important aspects of creating happy healthy strong bonsai which are easy to work on, recover faster and develop quicker ... all of these are goals in bonsai and it all starts with some pretty simple things; light, soil and water .... so in this case soil was the one thing that seems to be out of place ... (i get that what you are using works for you... so that's that)

now, if this works for you and you are happy with the results and the rate at which the trees develop etc .... then keep heading that direction ... if that ever changes and you want to examine alternatives.... I am sure there are many people here (especially Californians ) who might just be able to provide you with advise gained from lots of trial, error and loss .....

Perfect. As a follow-up, allow me to ask this:

With which types of plants have you been having the most success as per these mixes you use?

So far, I've only worked with junipers, and I imagine I'll stay with them for a while because they're the ones I find most aesthetically pleasing. But if I ever want to branch out (sorry for the terrible unintentional pun) to working with something else, what do you find best responds to the mix? Or, if you're working mostly with junipers, is there a particular category that's done really well?

I'm not opposed to trying a different mix in the future at all. It's just that at the moment what I'm using works and I like the dark, earthy look of it. But who knows what I'll like in the future?
 

linlaoboo

Mame
Messages
226
Reaction score
5
Location
New Jersey
USDA Zone
6b
sorry for you bro, I find it too often on these sites that people are truely not willing to share any friendship although they say bonsai is friendship. Many times they won't give any straight answers when you ask for advise without making some sarcastic remark. There are others who think they're contributing but they haven't read the original post thoroughly. and often times when you're just sharing your experience, it can be mistaken as you're looking for advise. Maybe it's an age thing or generation gap of some sort.
 

goosetown

Mame
Messages
180
Reaction score
2
Location
Los Angeles, CA
USDA Zone
10
No one likes the guy that acts like a complete arrogant ass either.

And you're probably the only one who doesn't like the peaceful guy. I'm just trying to get you to calm down while you sit there cutting your trees blindlessly and crying about why people are insulting your soil selection.

It's not "people from Virginia", it's stupid assholes that think they know everything.

I don't know what "cutting your trees blindlessly" means, but I can assure you I'm pretty calm. You seem to be thinking an awful lot about me and what I'm doing and you seem overly concerned for my welfare. I say: don't be. I'm absolutely positive there's someone else you can bother. Prithee, do that. I agree that I'm an asshole. I have been so branded. Now if you'll just move on to your next victim we can put this whole lark behind us.
 

Redwood Ryan

Masterpiece
Messages
4,555
Reaction score
2,583
Location
Virginia
USDA Zone
7A
I don't know what "cutting your trees blindlessly" means, but I can assure you I'm pretty calm. You seem to be thinking an awful lot about me and what I'm doing and you seem overly concerned for my welfare. I say: don't be. I'm absolutely positive there's someone else you can bother. Prithee, do that. I agree that I'm an asshole. I have been so branded. Now if you'll just move on to your next victim we can put this whole lark behind us.

I don't have any other "victims", but since I will gladly move on.
 

linlaoboo

Mame
Messages
226
Reaction score
5
Location
New Jersey
USDA Zone
6b
Perfect. As a follow-up, allow me to ask this:

With which types of plants have you been having the most success as per these mixes you use?

So far, I've only worked with junipers, and I imagine I'll stay with them for a while because they're the ones I find most aesthetically pleasing. But if I ever want to branch out (sorry for the terrible unintentional pun) to working with something else, what do you find best responds to the mix? Or, if you're working mostly with junipers, is there a particular category that's done really well?

I'm not opposed to trying a different mix in the future at all. It's just that at the moment what I'm using works and I like the dark, earthy look of it. But who knows what I'll like in the future?

not sure what plants benefits from what but my understanding is that inorganic aggregates is great for drainage and healthy root growth and prevents bugs and fungus knats due to stuffs decaying in organic soil. One of the down side is that one may need to water several times a day in a hot summer day if one used all inorganic mix. Mixing it with organic material with water retaintive qualities will solve this problem. A 60/40 ratio is quite common depending on your zone and your tree's liking. You can experiment with different ratio to suit your needs IMHO.
 

Redwood Ryan

Masterpiece
Messages
4,555
Reaction score
2,583
Location
Virginia
USDA Zone
7A
not sure what plants benefits from what but my understanding is that inorganic aggregates is great for drainage and healthy root growth and prevents bugs and fungus knats due to stuffs decaying in organic soil. One of the down side is that one may need to water several times a day in a hot summer day if one used all inorganic mix. Mixing it with organic material with water retaintive qualities will solve this problem. A 60/40 ratio is quite common depending on your zone and your tree's liking. You can experiment with different ratio to suit your needs IMHO.

Here's a good article that goes over that:
http://www.bonsai4me.com/Basics/Basics_Soils.html
 
Top Bottom