Diving In Feet First

[goosetown]

After some spirited discussion last night and about a year's worth of reading, watching, and studying, I decided that today would be the day I'd throw myself long into the Create Your Own Bonsai game. Looking very, very forward to my first go-round.

First thing I picked up were two very standard procumbens potted in 2.5-quart containers. Was able to pick through about ten of them to find two that had initial trunk movement that I liked. These are, officially, my test subjects. Really looking forward to shaping and potting these guys. No matter what happens, it's going to be tough to go wrong at $4.98 apiece.

When I went to the local bonsai nursery to get their pots, I struck up a conversation with the Head Bonsai Guy. He asked to see the procumbens I picked up and gave me some pointers. Then, he went into the back...and walked out with this little (seemingly untouched) shimpaku. He asked me if I wanted it for $15, and of-effing-course I did.

Here are my two questions:

1. The procumbens are, essentially, experiments. Tests to see if I've learned enough to not only keep them alive but turn them into something mediocre-to-special. But I want to be a little more careful with the shimp - should I do some pruning and wiring now, or should I just plant it and let it grow for a while?

2. Is it OK to fertilize these guys after a couple weeks or should I be waiting longer after repotting?

Thanks in advance. Going to post some more pictures of the shimp so you guys can get a better look.

 

[goosetown]

Here are some more shots of the shimpaku.

 

[Bill S]

First question is do you want these to be very small bonsai.

 

[goosetown]

I suppose I'd need to know what your definition of "very small" is. The plan we discussed was to grow them in 6" pots for the time being, moving them to 10-12" pots in a few years, maxing out their height at about 12"-18".

 

[berobinson82]

I suppose I'd need to know what your definition of "very small" is. The plan we discussed was to grow them in 6" pots for the time being, moving them to 10-12" pots in a few years, maxing out their height at about 12"-18".

I think if you are going to want trees 12 - 18 inches, you should plant these in the ground where they'll get plenty of sun and grab some larger starter material! From all I've gathered, you can't beat putting a plant in the ground to accelerate growth. I scooped up so many plants when I first began. A lot of them this size. Most of them are either in the dumpster or the ground now and my attention is turned to larger materials. Think big! Most bonsai trees are cut down from big materials rather than grown into them over time.

Cheers,

B

 

[Bill S]

Goose, Berorobinson said what i was thinking on this, trees are more often cut down to size, your trees will take a long time in pots.

 

[rockm]

"I suppose I'd need to know what your definition of "very small" is. The plan we discussed was to grow them in 6" pots for the time being, moving them to 10-12" pots in a few years, maxing out their height at about 12"-18". "

A "few years" to get these to produce a trunk capable of looking decent for a 12-18' finished tree will take a decade or more in a pot.

Rule of bonsai -- small bonsai --for the most part--DON'T become big bonsai.

Bigger bonsai (and smaller ones for that matter) are almost always created from larger trees that are substantially physically reduced--basically taking a bigger piece of tree stock and remove big parts of it. To get a 12-18" finished tree with the appropriately proportioned trunk will require these to be grown untouched for more than a "few" years, more like a decade. Might be just under 10 if you plant them out in the ground--another rule of bonsai. Once placed in a container (of any sort) growth slows dramatically.

That said, what you have there are pretty decent small (or shohin or even mame) sized stock. These don't really need to be grown out (paticularly the shimp). THey can be reduced into very nice 6-10 inch bonsai.

If you want a larger 18" tree, start with a 24-40" juniper and reduce it--that is how the majority of bonsai is created.

 

[Dav4]

Most bonsai trees are cut down from big materials rather than grown into them over time.

Bam!!! That's it in a nutshell.

 

[goosetown]

Great advice all. What I'm running up against here is Lack of Free Earth. I live in an apartment complex and don't currently have any ground to plant them in; otherwise, I agree, planting them would be ideal. Now, lots of time? That I've got.

If these end up being 6"-10" junipers because of those limitations, so be it. One of the main reasons I got into bonsai in the first place is to help in teaching me the patience I lack in other parts of my life. This outghta be a good, long lesson in that. If I can get them a little bigger, great. If not, great. Perhaps when I get some more room I'll try cutting down a much larger plant.

 

[rockm]

"I live in an apartment complex and don't currently have any ground to plant them in; otherwise, I agree, planting them would be ideal. Now, lots of time? That I've got."

You're not hearing us. We're saying don't plant these out. Work with them as is. Make them smaller trees. You will not be able to make them into bigger trees in containers. You don't need to. You also don't need more room for a bigger tree. You can reduce THESE TREES to make a couple of decent bonsai. The shimpaku, in particular, will make a very nice mame (do a search) sized tree...

This is what can be done with smaller shimpaku material:
http://nichigobonsai.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/small-shimpaku.jpg
Yours will probably work out to be bigger than this one.

 

[goosetown]

Oh no, sorry if I wasn't clear - I'm reducing them and potting them. I do see what you're saying now. If they're always this size, they're always this size. The point of the whole exercise was to try my hand at potting them, styling them, and helping them flourish. If they stay small, so be it. In the end, I'm less concerned about the size of the tree and more that I do this all correctly.

 

[berobinson82]

I LOVE that tree rockm.

Goosetown,

Can you cut the procumbens' pots down so I can see the trunk. We're not giving up on these guys. The Shimp looks like it could be wired to put movement in the trunk and maybe make it an informal upright. Shohin plants present quite the challenge. The tree doesn't HAVE to be huge to be rewarding. imo, those little buggers are harder to keep happy!


As an aside, be wary of doing TOO much to a tree too soon.

 

[goosetown]

OK, so here's the first procumbens. On the plus side, the roots were terrific, the trunk has FANTASTIC movement, and overall, I think there's a lot to work with here. Still going to obviously prune this out some more, but I can't "see" all that I want to in it until I wire the upper branch skyward. Unfortunately, what I thought was my delivery of wire Saturday turned out to be books, so this will have to wait until the needed shipment arrives to get tweaked. Still...not a bad start, I think! First picture is the front of the tree.

 

[goosetown]

Here's the second procumbens. On the downside, this one's root structure wasn't particularly noteworthy, so I'm going to have to keep a close eye on it. But once again, I got fantastically lucky as per trunk movement. If the right branch doesn't work out, I can always tweak this one a bit into a windswept. Again, still a little bit of thinning out to do, and I'm almost certainly going to bend the trunk at the bottom just a bit, but it's off to a start.

 

[goosetown]

And finally, here's the shimpaku. The roots were superb and I think the trunk will be fun to manipulate. All of the branches will get wired in one way or another. Overall, I think I'm rather happy with this one and can't wait to see where it goes from here.

As an added bonus: all of them drained properly and each tree seems firmly rooted in its pot. Now off to cross my fingers.

Also, if anyone can advise me on when I should fertilize them, I'd be very much appreciative.

 

[evolve]

Looks like you've already re-potted, so this may be coming a bit late, but... If you haven't already studied re-potting, soil amendments, root growth requirements, etc. I'd suggest you do that before moving forward with anything else. Once you have a solid grasp on these concepts everything else gets a whole lot easier, particularly watering and fertilizing, and the overall health of your trees. At least this has been my experience. I've watched nursery material not unlike what you've got here explode with new growth shortly after a spring re-pot, where as the exact same species that were left in their original nursery soil have struggled in comparison.

I'm still inexperienced, both with bonsai and horticulture, for me, learning about drainage, nutrients, soil amendments, root needs, etc., applying what I learned, and then seeing the benefits was a huge "ah-ha" moment.

 

[Redwood Ryan]

May be a dumb question, but these are being kept outside, right?

 

[berobinson82]

What sort of soil did you repot these into? It looks a like mostly potting soil which is overly water retentive for junipers. They don't thrive with soggy feet.

 

[rockm]

Potting soil for most bonsai is a killer...It is a definite problem with juniper. As noted, these should be outside. They will die inside a month indoors in potting soil. Even with proper bonsai soil, indoors is a death sentence.

 

[goosetown]

I did a little bit of my homework, guys. Don't worry.

First, I put a wire mesh over the drains and then anchored them in with copper wire (so as not to rust). After de-tangling and trimming the root ball, I put a thin layer of gravel on the bottom of the pot and then a layer of BONSAI soil - part soil, part pumice, part sand. I anchored my tree into position with wire and filled in the rest of the pot with BONSAI soil.

I understand that some people go into this sort of thing half-cocked, but you don't have to assume I'm an idiot. I've been studying how to do this for over a year. I am in Southern California and my plants sit on my porch facing East, meaning they have sun for at least half the day. They're not going indoors.