Diving In Feet First

[berobinson82]

I did a little bit of my homework, guys. Don't worry.

First, I put a wire mesh over the drains and then anchored them in with copper wire (so as not to rust). After de-tangling and trimming the root ball, I put a thin layer of gravel on the bottom of the pot and then a layer of BONSAI soil - part soil, part pumice, part sand. I anchored my tree into position with wire and filled in the rest of the pot with BONSAI soil.

I understand that some people go into this sort of thing half-cocked, but you don't have to assume I'm an idiot. I've been studying how to do this for over a year. I am in Southern California and my plants sit on my porch facing East, meaning they have sun for at least half the day. They're not going indoors.

Ignorance of a subject does not an 'idiot' make. I met a 15 year practitioner who called himself a beginner which was a lovely reminder of how much information there truly is to take in. *insert socrates' quote*

That soil still sounds like it may be too water retentive.

Is your avatar a picture of your bench?

 

[rockm]

Didn't assume you were an idiot, but there's book reading and hands-on learning.

I don't mean to come off as a know-it-all, but here's a few things to think about...

FWIW, your soil looks extremely heavy on organic components. Don't know what you're reading about soil, but if the source is over 10 years old, it could be outdated. "Soiless" mixes (which have no organic components like "dirt") are the go-to soils these days for conifers.

FWIW most recommend against soil layering. It's not necessary, for trees and pots this small it could complicate watering.

Not a big deal, but rust isn't an issue for tie-down wire. Copper erodes too over the year, especially with fertilizers and water running over it..As long as the tying down material isn't really toxic, it's not an issue, Some people use nylon mesh ties, some use aluminum, some use copper...The important thing is that you use a tie-down to keep the plant in place so it can push new roots without having them snapped off as the plant shifts in the wind.

 

[goosetown]

Ignorance of a subject does not an 'idiot' make. I met a 15 year practitioner who called himself a beginner which was a lovely reminder of how much information there truly is to take in. *insert socrates' quote*

That soil still sounds like it may be too water retentive.

Is your avatar a picture of your bench?

I'm not saying I'm an expert. I'm saying that I feel like I've adequately prepared myself to give this a shot. In doing so, I learned a little better than to use potting soil.

How might the soil be too "water retentive"? And yes, the avatar is a picture of two of my bonsai from January of this year.

 

[october]

Hi goosetown.. I noticed it said you live in an apartment complex...Just to give you some important advice to possibly save you time and trouble.. These junipers require 2 main criteria to remain healthy and alive as far as conditions. These trees will need at least 4-7 hours of full sun a day (when its sunny, that is). They need to be outside.. If you cannot put them outside, this is definitely not the species for you. However, you might be able to get away with putting them in a sunny window as long as it gets at least half a days sun. However, even in this case, the tree will never be as healthy as if it was outisde. Also, this tree will need a cold period for it to survive. What this means is that it needs at least 2 1/2 -3 months of temperatures that are in the upper 20's low 40's range. Slightly above and slightly below is ok too. If your winters are mild..say it does not really go below 25 for long periods of time, the tree might be able to stay outside through most of the Winter. However, there are certain criteria for that. Unhealthy junipers, very small junis and junis that have had a large amount of work done, should not be exposed to very harsh winters.

I hope this is helpful,
Rob

 

[goosetown]

Didn't assume you were an idiot, but there's book reading and hands-on learning.

I don't mean to come off as a know-it-all, but here's a few things to think about...

FWIW, your soil looks extremely heavy on organic components. Don't know what you're reading about soil, but if the source is over 10 years old, it could be outdated. "Soiless" mixes (which have no organic components like "dirt") are the go-to soils these days for conifers.

FWIW most recommend against soil layering. It's not necessary, for trees and pots this small it could complicate watering.

Not a big deal, but rust isn't an issue for tie-down wire. Copper erodes too over the year, especially with fertilizers and water running over it..As long as the tying down material isn't really toxic, it's not an issue, Some people use nylon mesh ties, some use aluminum, some use copper...The important thing is that you use a tie-down to keep the plant in place so it can push new roots without having them snapped off as the plant shifts in the wind.

Here's all I can tell you: before jumping into this, I consulted with a guy that's been doing this kind of thing in Southern California for thirty-plus years; he is the cultivator at a highly-regarded bonsai nursery here in Los Angeles. He took at look at all my plants, sold me the soil mix that he uses when he's repotting, and advised me on which gravel to use for the drainage layer. I feel like maybe I can trust him.

I'm not saying you're giving me bad information. I'm just saying that I've put a lot of time, thought and research into this, and when someone who does this for a living advises me as to how I might go about doing it properly on my own, I'm inclined to take their advice.

 

[Redwood Ryan]

No one assumed you are an idiot. Let's cool off a little bit here...Bonsai is friendship.

 

[mcpesq817]

Here's all I can tell you: before jumping into this, I consulted with a guy that's been doing this kind of thing in Southern California for thirty-plus years; he is the cultivator at a highly-regarded bonsai nursery here in Los Angeles. He took at look at all my plants, sold me the soil mix that he uses when he's repotting, and advised me on which gravel to use for the drainage layer. I feel like maybe I can trust him.

I'm not saying you're giving me bad information. I'm just saying that I've put a lot of time, thought and research into this, and when someone who does this for a living advises me as to how I might go about doing it properly on my own, I'm inclined to take their advice.

Without meaning to pile on, your source likely has his trees in full sun all day so that mix probably works well for him. I imagine that if you are in an apartment, you don't have that type of sun exposure that your source has, and so, that mix may be too wet for you.

With the mix you're using, you'll have to pay very close attention to the watering needs of your plants so that you don't overwater them. Professionals have that time and experience, us non-professionals generally don't. So, another benefit to a soilless mixture for us non-professionals is that it is difficult to overwater.

 

[goosetown]

Without meaning to pile on, your source likely has his trees in full sun all day so that mix probably works well for him. I imagine that if you are in an apartment, you don't have that type of sun exposure that your source has, and so, that mix may be too wet for you.

With the mix you're using, you'll have to pay very close attention to the watering needs of your plants so that you don't overwater them. Professionals have that time and experience, us non-professionals generally don't. So, another benefit to a soilless mixture for us non-professionals is that it is difficult to overwater.

Sigh.

I realize not everyone is reading all the posts, so let me repeat once again: the porch on which my bonsai sit faces east and gets sunlight from roughly 6AM - 3PM every day. That's nine hours of sun in an arid climate (Zone 10). I have two other junipers, one that I've owned for a year and one that I've owned for six months. They're doing very well.

I'm starting to get the feeling that there's nothing I'm going to say that's going to be satisfactory, so I'll simply take my queries elsewhere.

 

[october]

Sometimes the internet can make comments seem harsh or appear in a different context. If this was a calss, you could ask and say what ever you wanted and then the instructor would be able to suggest if a different course of action was needed. On the net, it might sound like everything you say is not correct, but in reality, it is just honest answers. Don't give up on the site yet..

Rob

 

[goosetown]

On the net, it might sound like everything you say is not correct, but in reality, it is just honest answers. Don't give up on the site yet..

Rob

Rob, I know your heart is in the right place, and I appreciate it. But here's the thing: these aren't necessarily honest answers. Most of them seem to be lectures that go on, despite my addressing concerns they've raised, simply so they can go on.

I also appreciate that there are many knowledgeable bonsai practitioners here who have a vast array of skills and plenty of wisdom to share. And trust me, I'm as green of a beginner as exists, and in general I actively want to soak up know-how that I don't yet possess. What annoys greatly is the attitude that, no matter what I've learned on my own or gleaned directly from professionals, it's incorrect. Because the person in Virginia knows how to better treat my tree in Southern California than I do and also knows better than the professional I've been consulting with directly for more than a year now. Hey, your soil looks like potting soil! Nope, it's a bonsai mix. Well, it looks a little too organic. Well, it's the mix that the guy at my nursery uses and recommended to me. If that's the case, he must not know you live in an apartment. By the way, did you know you have to keep these outdoors?

There are some nice people here, but overall, this lot is exhausting. The bonsai I'll continue with because I love it, whether I'm perfect at it or make every mistake in the book. The forum I'm not as much as fan of.

 

[evolve]

Hey Goosetown,

Hang in there, everyone means well and is just trying to help, even when it doesn't feel that way. The community, from what I've experienced, is very generous in sharing their hard earned knowledge and experience.

Everyone is going to do things a little differently. From horticulture to styling, there are lots of different approaches and opinions. While some will be better than others, they are not necessarily all right or wrong -- just different. Take the advice of artists you respect and keep an open mind when it comes to new ideas, criticism, and critique. Supplement your knowledge with science -- it's difficult to argue with sound research from credible sources.

And, as rock mentioned, it ultimately comes down to hands on experience. There's no way you'll know for sure if one technique, or soil mix, or whatever works better than another unless you actually try them. Tinker, experiment, see what works for you, see what doesn't, and never settle as there will always be a better way. Brent Walston states in his article about soils, "After fifteen years of this, I am still playing with soil mix formulas and this seems to be true of most nurseryman, so there will probably never be an end to this thread."

For whatever it's worth,

e

 

[rockm]

"Rob, I know your heart is in the right place, and I appreciate it. But here's the thing: these aren't necessarily honest answers. Most of them seem to be lectures that go on, despite my addressing concerns they've raised, simply so they can go on."

Yeah, we're lying to you . Not lectures, simply stating what I've experienced in my 25 years growing bonsai.

It's exhausting because you're not really here to learn, but to show us how much you know with an entire year under your belt. As for your trees, good luck, you're gonna need it bud. Yeah, your soil (and ever think the guy selling it is, well, selling something? I ain't selling nothing...) has A LOT of organic content. Ask around among So. Cal people if you don't believe this "person in Virginia."

And one last thing -- ask around, or at least do some of your reseach on who's online here before you start insulting people. I'm hardly what you so readily assume.

 

[october]

Goosetown...Sent you a pm.

 

[goosetown]

"Rob, I know your heart is in the right place, and I appreciate it. But here's the thing: these aren't necessarily honest answers. Most of them seem to be lectures that go on, despite my addressing concerns they've raised, simply so they can go on."

Yeah, we're lying to you . Not lectures, simply stating what I've experienced in my 25 years growing bonsai.

It's exhausting because you're not really here to learn, but to show us how much you know with an entire year under your belt. As for your trees, good luck, you're gonna need it bud. Yeah, your soil (and ever think the guy selling it is, well, selling something? I ain't selling nothing...) has A LOT of organic content. Ask around among So. Cal people if you don't believe this "person in Virginia."

And one last thing -- ask around, or at least do some of your reseach on who's online here before you start insulting people. I'm hardly what you so readily assume.

Whatever you say, fella. My name is Geoff LaTulippe, I live in Los Angeles, CA, and you're more than welcome to look me up, as I'm not hiding behind an avatar pretending to be tough. I have a Facebook page and a Twitter account and I'm generally unimportant. What makes you think I could possibly care who you are, Thou Who Shalt Cowardly Remain Nameless Post-Baseless Threat? What exclusive life-altering club am I now permanently banned from? I shudder at all the endless possibilities!

 

[Redwood Ryan]

Really man, relax. We aren't trying to belittle you, just trying to steer you in the right direction by offering advice and comments the best we can. You can go elsewhere, but you aren't going to be able to beat the experience of the people at the nut house.

 

[iant]

I agree.... Relax! I felt like I stepped into a trap (or a pile of fertilizer) responding to your other post! I gotta say I fell for it but you have a pretty well developed reaction mechanism there.
Ian

 

[Danilo]

Whatever you say, fella. My name is Geoff LaTulippe, I live in Los Angeles, CA, and you're more than welcome to look me up, as I'm not hiding behind an avatar pretending to be tough. I have a Facebook page and a Twitter account and I'm generally unimportant. What makes you think I could possibly care who you are, Thou Who Shalt Cowardly Remain Nameless Post-Baseless Threat? What exclusive life-altering club am I now permanently banned from? I shudder at all the endless possibilities!

You took his post the wrong way... He did not mean look the people up as a threat, but as to know who the people that are offering their advice are, and what experience they have.
I am a new member here as well, and I am soaking in a ton of knowledge that I could not find in all of the books I own. This is a great source for advise from very experienced bonsai practitioners (not myself, I'm only a few years into the madness)

 

[mcpesq817]

Sigh.

I realize not everyone is reading all the posts, so let me repeat once again: the porch on which my bonsai sit faces east and gets sunlight from roughly 6AM - 3PM every day. That's nine hours of sun in an arid climate (Zone 10). I have two other junipers, one that I've owned for a year and one that I've owned for six months. They're doing very well.

I'm starting to get the feeling that there's nothing I'm going to say that's going to be satisfactory, so I'll simply take my queries elsewhere.

Adios then!

P.S. If your porch is facing east, there is no way you're getting 9 hours of direct sunlight.

 

[goosetown]

Adios then!

P.S. If your porch is facing east, there is no way you're getting 9 hours of direct sunlight.

The reach you wizards have all the way from the East Coast is profound! Please just ignore me from now on. I beg you. I can't take someone seeing into my porch so perfectly from 2500 miles away.

 

[Redwood Ryan]

The reach you wizards have all the way from the East Coast is profound! Please just ignore me from now on. I beg you. I can't take someone seeing into my porch so perfectly from 2500 miles away.

All right I could care less if this guy leaves now. Bye bud.