Princess Persimmon

[MACH5]

First post. I searched the web for days and this post had the most info on these trees. Still not really clear on a few things. I have a few questions, and was wondering if I could piggy back on this thread.

I bought this tree a few days ago at a small boutique shohin shop where I live in Japan.

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• Hanandokita
• Oct 29, 2019

First question. There is a branch in the back that I want to cut off and maybe try a root the cutting. It's also starting to fuse to the trunk. There is only one leaf on it and it's about to fall off. There are a couple of green buds. I've read somewhere that the best time to do cuttings is around now.I'm a little worried that there are not any leaves on it and may not make it. Should I attempt doing it now, or wait until spring? Regardless it has to go.

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• Hanandokita
• Oct 29, 2019

Second question. When is the best time to root prune. According to this thread autumn is the best time?

Also the shop I bought it from said that a male is important, but he also said that he uses a spray that they use for tomatoes here to encourage fruits. I don't know if it's some kind of pollen spray, or if it's to attract more insects. I also have a normal sized persimmon tree and he said that would help as well if you don't have a male. I'll have to wait next year to see what happens.

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• Hanandokita
• Oct 29, 2019

Not sure about when its the best time to make cuttings. But spring sounds like a good time?

As far as repotting, I have also heard about doing it in the fall. However, I have limited myself to repotting this tree in spring with no issues.

 

[MACH5]

Fall update. This year it produced more fruit than pervious years. They almost appear to glow. They are so bright! Lots of fruits fell off in the process but originally it had produced around 20. These trees are quite slow in developing but well worth the effort

 

[Nybonsai12]

looks awesome. Fruits spaced out good as well, love that bright orange! Dibs on seeds? Lolol

 

[barrosinc]

Wow

 

[MACH5]

looks awesome. Fruits spaced out good as well, love that bright orange! Dibs on seeds? Lolol

Yep, I'll save you whatever I can find. I think I will try and strike some cuttings next year if I can. I just got a small young clump of female princess from Owen. Love these trees!

 

[MACH5]

I'm still not sure what's happening when I post my photos on this site. My original files are razor sharp. But when I post them here they get a bit blurry in the process!

This doesn't seen to happen on Facebook.

 

[ConorDash]

Hey Mach,

What a lovely tree and in your previous posts, you talked about using that blue cloth in the show, it really did make the fruit looking amazingly dazzling. It inspires me to look in to a winter image fruiting tree. I’ve a few of the twisted hazelnut I’m working on but they are years away. They will look good but won’t have a highly coloured fruit which takes the image to a new level!

The fruit falling off... given all the talk about what’s fake and not.. a suggestion.
When the fruit reaches a stage that it usually may drop off, perhaps a bit of super glue on its stem (or where it usually breaks) to reinforce the connection? It wouldn’t harm the tree, and be invisible. Just need some precision with its application.

I see glue being used more and more at the moment for all sorts of things.. Harry H uses to reinforce thin deadwood that has been carved.

 

[JudyB]

So nice this year! That pot combo with the fruit is one of my favorites of yours.

 

[Hanandokita]

I accidentally found this video about repotting today. It's in Japanese with decent subs.

 

[vp999]

So....Have we confirmed that this tree needs a male near by to have fruits? Theres a guy near me that has a couple for sale, but I will only get it if i don't need to buy a male tree also because he wants an arm and leg for each lol. Thanks

 

[MACH5]

So....Have we confirmed that this tree needs a male near by to have fruits? Theres a guy near me that has a couple for sale, but I will only get it if i don't need to buy a male tree also because he wants an arm and leg for each lol. Thanks

Sorry for this late reply. With this tree in particular a male is not needed. I can say that with complete certainty. Of course the fruit will be sterile but that is of no consequence. Now I have heard some reports that some plants do need a male to fruit. It can be a somewhat confusing subject.

Here's an update. This year was the most productive this tree has had in the 5 years under my care. I counted 21 fruits altogether with a couple more than fell off which sometimes happens. Interestingly, this was the first year I did not have a male persimmon. I think the increased number of fruits may also have to do with the tree's maturity?

As always, I love the intense orange fruits on this tree. In some the fruit is more round and red which makes them look like cherry tomatoes and less like persimmons.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Fantastic, Serg!

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Awesome as always! I'm still trying to figure out how to maintain the profile without cutting off the fruit, or else, cutting off next year's flower buds.

Slowly expanding my selection. I've got some yellows, oranges, and one dark red. Though I hear you about not needing a male to fruit, having a male is nice if you want to try your hand at seedlings. This year I have two Anderson flats of seedlings from a single tree!

 

[vp999]

Sorry for this late reply. With this tree in particular a male is not needed. I can say that with complete certainty. Of course the fruit will be sterile but that is of no consequence. Now I have heard some reports that some plants do need a male to fruit. It can be a somewhat confusing subject.

Here's an update. This year was the most productive this tree has had in the 5 years under my care. I counted 21 fruits altogether with a couple more than fell off which sometimes happens. Interestingly, this was the first year I did not have a male persimmon. I think the increased number of fruits may also have to do with the tree's maturity?

As always, I love the intense orange fruits on this tree. In some the fruit is more round and red which makes them look like cherry tomatoes and less like persimmons.

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Thank you Serg!!!! Beautiful tree as always.

 

[Canada Bonsai]

@MACH5 how is it looking this year?

I just read through this thread, and there was lots of discussion about fruit. I was wondering what your experience has been like with regards to pruning and ramification?

Sorry for this late reply. With this tree in particular a male is not needed. I can say that with complete certainty. Of course the fruit will be sterile but that is of no consequence. Now I have heard some reports that some plants do need a male to fruit. It can be a somewhat confusing subject.

From what I understand, some cultivars/varieties require pollination, and others do not. If I can trust my translation app, the 7th column of this table translates to 'parthenocarpy' (the production of fruit without fertilization):

姫柿について

If you're leading up to a show, gibberillic acid can be used. Have you come across Michael's blog post yet? He's great:

Methods to ensure fruiting of Persimmon Bonsai

Learn some techniques to keep your persimmon in optimal health and get great fruit each display year!

bonsaiharmony.ca

Good info on gibberillic acid here too: https://bonsai.shinto-kimiko.com/sodatekata/mimono/roya.htm

 

[MACH5]

@MACH5 how is it looking this year?

I just read through this thread, and there was lots of discussion about fruit. I was wondering what your experience has been like with regards to pruning and ramification?

Took these this morning. This tree does not need a male plant to produce fruit contrary to what I originally believed. I usually cut back in the fall to a bud that's pointing in the direction I want the next segment to grow. One can cut back a branch to no visible buds and likely it will back bud but I do this in spring instead and not fall.

 

[badatusernames]

Took these this morning. This tree does not need a male plant to produce fruit contrary to what I originally believed. I usually cut back in the fall to a bud that's pointing in the direction I want the next segment to grow. One can cut back a branch to no visible buds and likely it will back bud but I do this in spring instead and not fall.

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I am under the impression that these are quite difficult to take care of, is there any schedule you follow?

 

[Shogun610]

Took these this morning. This tree does not need a male plant to produce fruit contrary to what I originally believed. I usually cut back in the fall to a bud that's pointing in the direction I want the next segment to grow. One can cut back a branch to no visible buds and likely it will back bud but I do this in spring instead and not fall.

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How deep can you cut back to expect a fruit to bud? Does it have to be up until previous years growth? Awesome Persimmon, one of the persimmons that inspired me to get my own.

 

[MACH5]

I am under the impression that these are quite difficult to take care of, is there any schedule you follow?

No not at all, at least in my experience. Very easy to care for. I do not do anything "special" for their care. I use a combo of BioGold with fish emulsion much like I do for any other tree in the garden, but not too much otherwise it may hinder fruit production. I use straight akadama with about 10% kiryu. It gets about 5 hours of direct sunlight in the height of summer. I keep it well watered but letting it dry up a bit before watering it again.

They thicken up VERY slowly and wire can remain in the branches for long periods of time but must be removed before it bites in, otherwise scars will remain forever on the tree. Large cuts must be carefully considered as the heal poorly.

Not very winter hardy. It can take frosts but the lowest temperature I am comfortable exposing the tree to is 28F for short periods. Nothing much below that. So they need good protection in the northern areas of the country.

 

[MACH5]

How deep can you cut back to expect a fruit to bud? Does it have to be up until previous years growth? Awesome Persimmon, one of the persimmons that inspired me to get my own.

Thanks! Flowers and fruit are produced on the current year's growth. I usually cut back to a bud from that same year in the fall. Sometimes I may need to cut back hard on a specific branch leaving no visible buds on it. I do this in spring. I have not noticed any flowers and fruit forming from whatever shoots pop from that prune.