What do you think this JBP is worth

[Adair M]

That would be good for Steve to have something decent to sell!

I just wish the wire had been removed...

I have an Iishi that was all twisted up, but the wire was not left on to be embedded. I got it at the Atlanta club auction. Problem is, the previous owner didn't wire an of the new growth. So it has a twisty trunk and straight branches. I bought it hoping I can restore it's character, and resell it.

 

[Eric Schrader]

There was a table full of these at the BGLM sale last weekend. I would have considered buying some for our local club to use for workshops and as stock for the beginners, but I too can't stomach the wire scars.

To the OP: I agree that I wouldn't buy the tree in question. Either pony up for a decent piece of stock or start from the beginning and make it yourself. 15 years from now you'll be happier for it.

 

[Adair M]

Yep. There's wire scars, and there's wire that's left in intentionally for the tree to callous over. Those spiral marks will be there forever.

Mind you, it does bulk up the trunk faster.

But to my eye, they look just like those S curve chinese elms.

 

[Littlejoe919]

To the OP: I agree that I wouldn't buy the tree in question. Either pony up for a decent piece of stock or start from the beginning and make it yourself. 15 years from now you'll be happier for it.

Okay, then would someone like to post some pictures of what a "decent piece of stock" is and what I should expect to pay for it?

Thanks

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Okay, then would someone like to post some pictures of what a "decent piece of stock" is and what I should expect to pay for it?

Thanks

If you know what you're looking for, you can find "decent" stock in most any price range. The attached photo is one I bought recently and is a perfect example; good stock for a good price.
Have you looked at our list of online retailers? Checked with Don, Brent, Chris, Zach, Wigert's?
Send me a PM with your budget and I may be able to help point you in the right direction.

 

[Bunjeh]

If you are selling, $150. If you are buying, offer $45 and ask about Mycorrhiza. If says "what" offer $35. If he knows,..pay the $150.

 

[Eric Group]

Exactly. The market value based on what you will find online is well above what many members here will pay. The low ball prices mentioned by others are a priceyou might encounter at a swap meet or local club auction. The total price is pretty reasonable when you compare it to large commercial nurseries or ebay. Opportunity costs and availability play a key roll in the price. Adair mentioned several good aspects that impact price. Other things to consider: its already in a bonsai pot, trees demand a higher price when already growing in a bonsai pot. If this same tree were in a 3 gallon pot, I would be in the same boat as others (around $50). As you mentioned, it doesnt have the large chop that takes years to heal like other pines in that price range. The value of the pot itself is probably $30 to $50.
The bottom line is, if you want a pine already in a bonsai pot without a big chop scar, this would be a good tree to practice your pine techniques. You can always graft a low branch down the road.
If you are concerned just wait and see if anyone bids, offer a lower price if it doesnt sell.

Good points... However, this- TO ME- seems a perfect example of a young tree that needs to add a lot of wood and maturity, but someone stuck it in a Bonsai pot too early so they could sell it for a higher price! So, that leaves you a few options if you buy it- work it like it IS actually a bonsai ready to be trained... Which will result in a thin, uninteresting trunk with little movement for the rest of this tree's life. Or, take it out of the Bonsai pot and stick it in the ground for a couple years to let it grow out. Maybe get a branch bender or some REALLY thick wire down low on the trunk to get some wiggle in it... Either way, paying a bunch for this tree just doesn't seem worth it to me. Not that it is a horrible deal or a particularly ugly tree... Just uninteresting, young, too small, immature... And when factoring in the fact they clearly are trying to "cash in" on the term "bonsai" by putting it in a bonsai tray... Which ebay sellers think is some magic term that means you get to charge triple digits for what is some time SINGLE digit material.... Well, I rate this tree as a PASS.

 

[Smoke]

Capitalis'm a't it's fines't.

Thats all for you Ji'm

 

[Smoke]

That would be good for Steve to have something decent to sell!

I just wish the wire had been removed...

I have an Iishi that was all twisted up, but the wire was not left on to be embedded. I got it at the Atlanta club auction. Problem is, the previous owner didn't wire an of the new growth. So it has a twisty trunk and straight branches. I bought it hoping I can restore it's character, and resell it.

These are young trees. All under five years old. In five more years with bark you will never know any of these had wire on them. Of course then they will cost a fortune. I'm getting mine now while they are young and then I can develop the trees from here. Just need time and mine is pretty cheap.

 

[Smoke]

This plot of 1000 tridents is for Steve. I will be working these in the ground over the next few years.

 

[Adair M]

These are young trees. All under five years old. In five more years with bark you will never know any of these had wire on them. Of course then they will cost a fortune. I'm getting mine now while they are young and then I can develop the trees from here. Just need time and mine is pretty cheap.

I dunno, Smoke... You know all those imported JWP on JBP trunks all have wire imbedded in their trunks. And every one of them looks artificial. And they're all 15 to 20 years old.

I hope he started some that weren't all twisted up. The twistys are fine if you like that style. It's not my taste, but some like them. I prefer the Sumo style. Some don't care for Sumo. That's ok, too.

I am glad he's growing stock for bonsai, and I hope he's successful with it. It bodes well for the future of bonsai.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

I tend to agree...I've had several pines with wired trunks whose scars remain. One JRP (RIP) must have been 15 years old when I bought it, and the scars were there from at least a decade before, though not too obnoxious, but the bark pattern showed the wire route for all 5 years I owned it. I'm growing one now and intend to remove the wire before it digs in. It will still have movement, but I am trying to avoid scars.

 

[Adair M]

Wire scars are just one of the things that happens. A little scarring will grow out in time. (Usually.). It depends upon the species.

But intentionally leaving the wire in to promote a rough trunk? To me, it's a "mallsai" technique.

 

[Smoke]

I dunno, Smoke... You know all those imported JWP on JBP trunks all have wire imbedded in their trunks. And every one of them looks artificial. And they're all 15 to 20 years old.

I hope he started some that weren't all twisted up. The twistys are fine if you like that style. It's not my taste, but some like them. I prefer the Sumo style. Some don't care for Sumo. That's ok, too.

I am glad he's growing stock for bonsai, and I hope he's successful with it. It bodes well for the future of bonsai.

Actually No, I don't know. I would love to see some pictures of any of these trees. You said "All of those imported trees have wire and every one looks artificial, have any pics to show this? Any exhibit east coast or west coast?

 

[Smoke]

Wire scars are just one of the things that happens. A little scarring will grow out in time. (Usually.). It depends upon the species.

But intentionally leaving the wire in to promote a rough trunk? To me, it's a "mallsai" technique.

Since wire is the root in either technique, explain mallsai technique. Whats the difference except not knowing when to stop?

 

[Adair M]

Smoke, you know perfectly well what trees I'm talking about. They're mass produced by the thousands in Japan. I think Jonas wrote about them on his blog, Bonsai Tonight.

Anyway, here's a picture of one for sale at Ne bonsai gardens:

 

[Smoke]

Had no idea. Never seen those pictures before and you are correct that is hideous. I would never buy that.

 

[Paulpash]

I tend to agree...I've had several pines with wired trunks whose scars remain. One JRP (RIP) must have been 15 years old when I bought it, and the scars were there from at least a decade before, though not too obnoxious, but the bark pattern showed the wire route for all 5 years I owned it. I'm growing one now and intend to remove the wire before it digs in. It will still have movement, but I am trying to avoid scars.

Was this your $2K coaster tree Brian? You must have been gutted but it shows that even the greats have casualties sometimes. You just gotta do the post mortem, learn from it and move on.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Was this your $2K coaster tree Brian?

Fortunately, yes, it is the same tree.

 

[Eric Group]

Smoke, you know perfectly well what trees I'm talking about. They're mass produced by the thousands in Japan. I think Jonas wrote about them on his blog, Bonsai Tonight.

Anyway, here's a picture of one for sale at Ne bonsai gardens:

View attachment 68348

I thought they had some nice trees on their list currently too though- the little JWP were cool and reasonably priced for imports... Not that I am drooping $250 on a tree right now (I have a bunch to work on this Spring, don't need to increase it..) but if I were, this might make the list!
http://www.nebonsai.com/mm5/merchan...ode=NEBG&Product_Code=TM_29&Category_Code=BON