Is this JBP worth the investment?

Brian Van Fleet said:
To add some perspective, here is 10 years in the life of a JBP that was grown all along to become bonsai. It's still a few years away from "finished" in my view.
Spring 2007:
View attachment 116533
Late summer 2016:
View attachment 116534
I think 10 years with that kotobuki is optimistic, but the price is good, so is the cultivar. Just don't try to make the whole tree into the finished bonsai. Develop a couple low branches into your final branches and use the tall stuff as sacrifice.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the inspiration.
 
johng said:
That is completely on you...no one can make that promise for you... Give a clone of that tree to 10 people and in 10 years you would have 10 completely different trees...some good, some not so good...maybe 1 excellent.
Most trees have some potential...whether a given individual can maximize that potential is far less about the tree and far more about the horticultural and styling skills of the individual.
I would say go for it as $45 is really not a big investment for any 10 year project...even if the tree never reaches your vision for it...I bet you learn something about the species and yourself along the way:)

If you still have that tree after 10 years it will be worth more than you paid:) Potentially 10-20x more if you have the right stuff!
Click to expand...
Speaking clones, you think he could get this sucker to root? ;)
My mind always goes there! LOL
 
johng said:
That is completely on you...no one can make that promise for you... Give a clone of that tree to 10 people and in 10 years you would have 10 completely different trees...some good, some not so good...maybe 1 excellent.
Most trees have some potential...whether a given individual can maximize that potential is far less about the tree and far more about the horticultural and styling skills of the individual.
I would say go for it as $45 is really not a big investment for any 10 year project...even if the tree never reaches your vision for it...I bet you learn something about the species and yourself along the way:)

If you still have that tree after 10 years it will be worth more than you paid:) Potentially 10-20x more if you have the right stuff!
Click to expand...
Thank you, what I meant by junk tree is I didn't want to buy the tree to find out next year that this cultivar doesn't backbud or it's just not suitable for bonsai for some other reason. Thank you again for all the advice - Mike
 
Eric Group said:
Speaking clones, you think he could get this sucker to root? ;)
My mind always goes there! LOL
Click to expand...
Would love to know myself, I've heard only that pine are difficult to air layer In general.
 
Kotobuki backbud like crazy. Awesome cultivar, imo. I'd buy it in a heartbeat. Of course, its not the only $45 I have or the only tree I would own. If you only have $45 and can only have 1 tree, then buy something else. Otherwise snatch it up. It has tons of potential as a project. Look at all the scions you have to graft onto it, and a pretty decent low trunk already. Hell, if there were 10 or even 100 I buy them all. No question.
 
No brainer to purchase unless you're on a tight budget, pressed for space, in a hurry (bonsai-wise),etc...

but to each his/her own.
 
To be honest you could buy it raffia the trunk twist it up so it will fit a small/ shorter box and ship it to me :)
 
Don Blackmond said:
Kotobuki backbud like crazy. Awesome cultivar, imo. I'd buy it in a heartbeat. Of course, its not the only $45 I have or the only tree I would own. If you only have $45 and can only have 1 tree, then buy something else. Otherwise snatch it up. It has tons of potential as a project. Look at all the scions you have to graft onto it, and a pretty decent low trunk already. Hell, if there were 10 or even 100 I buy them all. No question.
Click to expand...

I'm glad Don brought this up, because I was about to. On one hand you can view this as a standard JBP and say it is poor/challenging material. On the other hand, you need to consider the cultivar. Kotobuki is an interesting dwarf cultivar that maintains short, dark green, thick needles without the need for "needle shortening" techniques. Additionally, it back-buds like crazy - more than any other JBP with the possible exception of Yatsubusa (yatsubusa originally being developed from a witch's broom on a kotobuki). If it were me, I'd be on this tree for no other reason than it is rare to see a kotobuki this large for sale... and definitely not at the price.
 
I keep this photo around because it is rare to be able to track a cultivar back to a single source. This tree is a Pinus thunbergii "kotobuki". The top of the tree developed a witch's broom with softer, greener needles. These were grafted off and became the source of Pinus thunbergii "yatsubusa". If you have a yatsubusa, it came from this single tree...

mystery.jpg
 
Don Blackmond said:
Kotobuki backbud like crazy. Awesome cultivar, imo. I'd buy it in a heartbeat. Of course, its not the only $45 I have or the only tree I would own. If you only have $45 and can only have 1 tree, then buy something else. Otherwise snatch it up. It has tons of potential as a project. Look at all the scions you have to graft onto it, and a pretty decent low trunk already. Hell, if there were 10 or even 100 I buy them all. No question.
Click to expand...
Thank you! Exactly what I wanted to hear. -Mike
 
In case you are not sure about all the talk of chopping and sacrifices... To sum it up the tree will be chopped but not in the near future. The top branches are kept to keep the tree growing strongly (maybe you remove a few??). Then you build the tree from the existing lower branches and graft some more branches on (you can get some help and learn how to graft). You need to repot by removing soil from 1/3 to 1/2 of the rootball and use good bonsai soil. Normally a pine is not completely barerooted.
 
And when you finaly remove SB, be ready to grow the top branch as a new SB for old trunk-new trunk transition.
 
Here is what you get when you buy a Kotobuki "grown for bonsai" for a $150.....
SP_56JBPine-3-600x600.jpg

SP_56JBPine-1-180x180.jpg You can see the graft bulging above the roots. Not everybody has 500 bucks to spend on an import. Especially when you don't know how to work a Pine properly. Like @Don Blackmond said, why wouldn't you buy it? Of course you could spend 700 bucks or more to go to "bonsai school".:confused: Great tree to learn with and develop your skills. Practicing on an expensive piece of stock is tantamount to thinking you can race Supercross because you rode a bicycle in the tenth grade!

Pictures of this tree from your garden tonight will do!!!:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
 
even if Randy Night and Teleperion are a couple hundred miles from you, you need to visit these nurseries and shop in person. Many will be out of your league price wise, but both have many treasures in the corners that will be under $100 and have huge potential. Don't be intimidated by big price stickers on the show pieces they may post on line. They both have a wide range of species and different aged material and all at a range of prices from cheap to oh my god. Both have too much stock to list more than a small % on line. Go visit the Portland area where they are near. .
 
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