What's a fair price for a pre-bonsai maple?

[AcerAddict]

As @rockm said, I think the best thing for me is to wait until I can attend a show. The purpose of this thread was for me to get a general overall idea of what is deemed "expensive" or not in today's market. Five years ago or five years from now, these prices may be considered reasonable, but for now, it appears these sellers are asking too much in almost all cases. I guess there are plenty of buyers out there who are either less educated in bonsai than I am, or have deeper pockets than I do and just don't care about money. Clearly these trees are being bought at these prices by someone out there, otherwise the sellers wouldn't price them as they have.

My local nurseries and big box retailers will be starting their fall sales on deciduous trees in the coming weeks, so I'll keep an eye out for bargains that way for now. At least I know enough about pricing on landscape trees to realize when something is a deal or not.

 

[AcerAddict]

Just wanted to throw in an interesting update here. The Arakawa maple from my original post (link #4) now costs $1,395. It was $1,095 when I first created this topic back in August. Why the sudden increase of $300? Is it common practice for vendors to raise prices 27% at a time? While I might have been interested in buying it before, I'm definitely not buying it now.

Will be very interesting to see if the Bonsai Learning Center folks have this tree on one of their tables at the Winter Silhouette show this weekend, and if so, what price they have it listed for. In fact, I wouldn't rule out their trip to the bonsai show being the sole reason for the sudden price increase. Perhaps they're hoping to catch some newbie with deep pockets and sell them this tree for the inflated price.

 

[Ohmy222]

Just wanted to throw in an interesting update here. The Arakawa maple from my original post (link #4) now costs $1,395. It was $1,095 when I first created this topic back in August. Why the sudden increase of $300? Is it common practice for vendors to raise prices 27% at a time? While I might have been interested in buying it before, I'm definitely not buying it now.

Will be very interesting to see if the Bonsai Learning Center folks have this tree on one of their tables at the Winter Silhouette show this weekend, and if so, what price they have it listed for. In fact, I wouldn't rule out their trip to the bonsai show being the sole reason for the sudden price increase. Perhaps they're hoping to catch some newbie with deep pockets and sell them this tree for the inflated price.

Probably inflation everyone is seeing. If you are interested then offer them what you want to pay and see what they say. Most bonsai purchases are negotiable.

 

[MACH5]

FWIW sometimes I'm willing to pay asking price which may be too high for what's being offered. But the value for me is in its future and not for what I am getting. The tree in question may not be worth the asking price at that very moment, but in two or three years with some proper work it may be worth that or much more.

 

[Mikecheck123]

I'm trying to learn to identify when a tree is priced appropriately vs. when it's overpriced, so I don't get taken when making a purchase in the future. I haven't bought maples before, outside of nursery stock.

I'd like to ask the more experienced buyers out there, which of these are "fairly" priced, if any? You can just reply with numbers if you want since the species vary.

1. https://brusselsbonsai.com/trident-maple-st0921tm-vv/
2. https://brusselsbonsai.com/trident-maple-st1221tm-f/
3. https://brusselsbonsai.com/trident-maple-grove-st0920tmg-i/
4. https://bonsailearningcenter.mysimp...rakawa-rough-bark-japanese-maple-bonsai-hs026
5. https://bonsailearningcenter.mysimplestore.com/products/japanese-maple-sharps-pygmy-bonsai-1651
6. https://bellabonsai.com/collections/deciduous-1/products/trident-maple-bonsai-tree-5
7. https://www.ebay.com/itm/324755580708?hash=item4b9cf0e724:g:7HYAAOSw7DZhGsx4
8. https://www.ebay.com/itm/324711979378?hash=item4b9a579972:g:ihUAAOSwOo9g7HOl
9. https://www.ebay.com/itm/114192138478?hash=item1a9661c0ee:g:qhwAAOSwK05enAMj
10. https://www.nebonsai.com/bonsai-trees/deciduous-outdoor/kiyohime-japanese-maple-5545/

I have in my head which ones I think are overpriced, but I'd like other opinions to see if my instincts are right or not. Thanks in advance.

Holy shit inflation is out of control!

I bought that exact Sharp's pygmy from Brussels for $95.

 

[n8]

...the value for me is in its future

Agree with this here (even if I don't share the same skillset as Serg).

Also want to add that this is an opportunistic hobby. We all have species on our wish lists that we're willing to jump at, but paying attention to club activity, local sellers and people moving out of the hobby or downsizing have resulted in my biggest scores. Keeping it local also keeps trees in similar growing conditions, so they're not going into shock in a new environment. I've been lucky in the past, but now I'm very hesitant to mail order any advanced or high-dollar tree that I'm unable to see and touch. (I'm a drummer and this also applies to a vintage cymbal addiction: I need to hear it in person.)

Stay patient, think savvy and be ready to purchase great material when it crosses your path.

 

[vp999]

Not a trident maple but here’s another product being sold by lilgman on eBay, what is the purpose of that wood

They been feeding that tree with the little blue pill.

 

[leatherback]

While I might have been interested in buying it before, I'm definitely not buying it now.

Good on you. I feel that also at 1K that tree is priced way over value. These are rare, but not that rare? Leave out the cool bark and it is just an uglytree, in my eyes.

 

[Lorax7]

Some of the links are broken at this point, so I couldn't see all the trees. However, of the links that were working, there are no trees in that list that I would buy at the listed prices.

Your best bet for getting pre-bonsai material that you're happy with at a price that you're happy with, IMO, is to:
1. Buy from a vendor at a show. Thus far, this has been how I've gotten my 2 trees with the most potential.
2. Visit a local bonsai nursery near you. At the very least, you won't be paying for shipping and handling. A vendor is also more likely to be flexible with the price when they have customer in the shop that they can see really wants to buy a particular tree but is on the fence. If they think moving the price point a little bit is all it's going to take to get you off the fence and whipping out your wallet, they're probably going to do just that if it's not going to significantly change their margins.
3. Arrange to buy trees from a bonsai professional who is coming to visit a local bonsai club for a demo/workshop. Basically, just reach out to them and ask to see some pictures of what they've got for sale beforehand and let them know if there's a tree you're interested in buying. Again, this saves on shipping because they're already planning to travel to your area, and it's no big deal for them to pack a few trees in the back of the van to bring along for the ride. I haven't bought anything this way yet, but I know other folks who have gotten nice trees for reasonable prices this way.

 

[leatherback]

3. Arrange to buy trees from a bonsai professional who is coming to visit a local bonsai club for a demo/workshop. Basically, just reach out to them and ask to see some pictures of what they've got for sale beforehand and let them know if there's a tree you're interested in buying. Again, this saves on shipping because they're already planning to travel to your area, and it's no big deal for them to pack a few trees in the back of the van to bring along for the ride. I haven't bought anything this way yet, but I know other folks who have gotten nice trees for reasonable prices this way

Yup, been there, done that.

 

[sorce]

Between free and $10k.

Sorce

 

[John P.]

Or go to a good nursery, examine 20 of the same trees, buy a tree, air layer, and save a lot of money.


$95 at an expensive nursery in Corona Del Mar, CA



More: https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/let’s-develop-this-sharp’s-pygmy.47899/

Seems plants get quite a markup when sold as “bonsai,” but we knew that already.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

$95 at an expensive nursery in Corona Del Mar, CA

Someone spends too much time at Roger's Gardens I own some trees from there

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Just wanted to throw in an interesting update here. The Arakawa maple from my original post (link #4) now costs $1,395. It was $1,095 when I first created this topic back in August. Why the sudden increase of $300? Is it common practice for vendors to raise prices 27% at a time? While I might have been interested in buying it before, I'm definitely not buying it now.

Will be very interesting to see if the Bonsai Learning Center folks have this tree on one of their tables at the Winter Silhouette show this weekend, and if so, what price they have it listed for. In fact, I wouldn't rule out their trip to the bonsai show being the sole reason for the sudden price increase. Perhaps they're hoping to catch some newbie with deep pockets and sell them this tree for the inflated price.

I spoke with Brian and Brad about the tree and it turns out there are two trees that are similar in appearance. Brad has one and Brian has the other. Brad's is $300 more expensive than Brian's. I don't think they brought either tree to the show.

 

[Lorax7]

Or go to a good nursery, examine 20 of the same trees, buy a tree, air layer, and save a lot of money.

View attachment 410996
$95 at an expensive nursery in Corona Del Mar, CA

View attachment 410997

More: https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/let’s-develop-this-sharp’s-pygmy.47899/

Seems plants get quite a markup when sold as “bonsai,” but we knew that already.

Caveat for this approach: This is really only a good idea for deciduous, junipers, and tropicals (and it’s still a wise idea to look up the particular species to get an idea of what the success rate on layers is before you buy). Don’t go buying pines expecting to be able to air layer them. You might get lucky and get a layer to work on a pine, but it’s not something you should count on when deciding if nursery stock is a good value for the price.

Some other things worth thinking about are how many layers you expect to get from the tree and the number of seasons it’s going to take to do the air layer and then get the harvested layer settled into a pot and growing well enough so that you can start working on it.

 

[AcerAddict]

I enjoy reading all the various opinions on topics like this. It further supports the old saying "something is only worth what another person is willing to pay."

@Bonsai Nut Thanks for the follow-up on the Arakawa. I appreciate it. Interesting that they have two of them at different prices, because the picture on the website of the $1,395 tree is the same pic from when the price was $1,095. I looked for an Arakawa at their show tables yesterday, but didn't see one. I did see they had a Sharp's Pygmy, but it was high on the top shelf and I didn't bother asking the price because I got one just a couple months ago. Plus, I assumed it would cost around $850, like they one they have listed on their site.

I bought this Sharp's in October from Ben at Niwaki Nursery. GREAT guy to do business with, BTW. He was selling it on the Bonsai Auctions Facebook group, and to be totally transparent here, I did the BIN price, which was $375. That is almost certainly far too much for an untrained nursery tree in a pot, but I've wanted to add a Sharp's Pygmy to my JM collection for a while, and none of my local nurseries carry them, so I bought it with no regrets. Still on the fence if I want to ground layer off the standard Ap trunk though, because the graft is incredibly well done and BARELY noticeable, even up close. I like this tree as-is and will probably do a broom style with it. Down the road, I may integrate it into a larger scene with a rolling hill, and maybe a fisherman next to a pond or river. We'll see.

 

[Lorax7]

I enjoy reading all the various opinions on topics like this. It further supports the old saying "something is only worth what another person is willing to pay."

@Bonsai Nut Thanks for the follow-up on the Arakawa. I appreciate it. Interesting that they have two of them at different prices, because the picture on the website of the $1,395 tree is the same pic from when the price was $1,095. I looked for an Arakawa at their show tables yesterday, but didn't see one. I did see they had a Sharp's Pygmy, but it was high on the top shelf and I didn't bother asking the price because I got one just a couple months ago. Plus, I assumed it would cost around $850, like they one they have listed on their site.

I bought this Sharp's in October from Ben at Niwaki Nursery. GREAT guy to do business with, BTW. He was selling it on the Bonsai Auctions Facebook group, and to be totally transparent here, I did the BIN price, which was $375. That is almost certainly far too much for an untrained nursery tree in a pot, but I've wanted to add a Sharp's Pygmy to my JM collection for a while, and none of my local nurseries carry them, so I bought it with no regrets. Still on the fence if I want to ground layer off the standard Ap trunk though, because the graft is incredibly well done and BARELY noticeable, even up close. I like this tree as-is and will probably do a broom style with it. Down the road, I may integrate it into a larger scene with a rolling hill, and maybe a fisherman next to a pond or river. We'll see.

Fundamentally, it boils down to the time value of money. For example, that Sharp's Pygmy you bought has a start on some trunk taper and ramification and, if the graft is low enough and done well so you don't need to layer, that's also a plus. For someone with more time and less money, they can still get a Sharp's Pygmy grown for landscape purposes even if there aren't any at their local nursery. It will just take more time to develop it to get to the stage of development of the one you bought. For example, although they're currently out of stock for this season, here is an example of an online vendor selling Sharp's Pygmy for under $60.

 

[John P.]

Someone spends too much time at Roger's Gardens I own some trees from there

You’re right! They are the only nursery I’ve found around here that brings in rarer maple cultivars (Arakawa, Sharp’s Pygmy, Deshojo, etc.). Last spring they had some Yatsubusa elms, too, and I’ve seen them use Hokkaido elms in their planted arrangements. Green Thumb nursery recently started bringing in some Iseli Nursery stuff, too, which is one of the growers of the fun varieties.

 

[AcerAddict]

Green Thumb nursery recently started bringing in some Iseli Nursery stuff, too, which is one of the growers of the fun varieties.

My Sharp's originally came from Iseli. It still had their triangular tag around one of the branches when it arrived at my house from Niwaki Nursery.

 

[John P.]

My Sharp's originally came from Iseli. It still had their triangular tag around one of the branches when it arrived at my house from Niwaki Nursery.

Ouch! Quite a markup (mine was under $100), but as you say … sometimes ya gotta do it!