Does ANYONE really like or appreciate the bitchiness on this site?

[A. Gorilla]

love Smoke....
Not saying he is a dick.

But I keenly observe the effects of positive and negative coaching.

(Baseball)
Time and time again I get signs that these coaches think a child knows something, simply because THEY know it themselves....not because it is something they properly instructed and practiced with the child.
Sometimes they even Say things like, "I wish I was on the field", which is proof, they think their child knows all they know, as their image of their child on the field is THEM and not their child.
They've "projected" themselves onto the field and when they yell at their child, it is truly them yelling at themselves, for something they knew they should have done.
I don't do this.
A proper method...

Coach and support prior. Allow. View and note individual mistakes. Speak of corrections later.
(Volleyball)
Same kid just started Volleyball, my mom coached and played for years and I was there, I played and Coached, Reffed and kept score.

So I figured my kid would be a natural...just like baseball! (Me projecting...noted!)

He wasn't! Sat most of the first game they got crushed in and he looked like a fish out of water!

So I applied my method of just cheering loudly, with bits of appropriately timed encouragement. (Since yelling real time instructions is proven useless)

And talked with him briefly after the game.

"Haha! I thought you would have played better than that! You guys gotta get your first bumps to the setter higher, you're wearing them out too fast. Those guys were good! You see how they were talking? You know how in baseball you are like a block away from another guy and you have to call it? The difficulty built in to the game of Volleyball is that you are ALL so close, able to cover the same area, it's even more important to talk, or you collide, or watch!"

Quiet Boy, Lead and Don't lead. Like me!

Can't say he got to talking much....

But he hasn't sat another second since that talk, and I believe they haven't lost again, except for HIS school pants at an away game! Lol!

Anyway....back to Baseball...

For 6 years I've been lured into trusting my child's future with these "coaches".
With their Grandiose Plans of A Killer team!

We finally have a Solid team, but most of the out of state and other early games have been played without their regular coaches.

And the teams that continue to beat us, are the same ones that ALWAYS HAVE....

The ones where you here simple, appropriately timed messages of encouragemt from the coaches....
"Put your hips into it"
"get a rip kid!"
"Step step"
"Look alive"
"Where's the play?"
"Drive it"

And in every instance the losing side does the ole, yell as it happens and bitch later.

"Two two, aawww...what are you doing?"
"Come on, you could have hit that"
"Would you stop watching the ball!?"
"What were you thinking?"

Makes me wanna go punch a motherfucker in the mouth and tell em about what the kid is thinking ...
He's Fucking sad and that don't help him!

Makes it even more shitty to do it here....
Since 1....this is not really in real time.
2. In real Bonsai, time? We have all the time in the world to properly coach.
3. Any piece if shit stick previously diced, killed, or EVEN bought dead, is still an opportunity to COACH.

SO LONG AS THE TEACHER HASN'T PREVIOUSLY PROJECTED HIS KNOWLEDGE INTO HIS STUDENT AND QUESTIONS WHY THEY DON'T GET IT!

That shit is impossible and makes you look like a moron!

Sorce

Anyone with good intentions, trying to learn something new, the coach should perceive that someone's screw-up still represents that kid's 100% ability for that moment. It might have been 50% wrong, but it's also 50% right. Question is, are you going to hit the brakes and mention the bad, or hit the gas and praise the heck out of the good? The only thing which should be mentioned is recognition of their effort and what TO DO; as opposed to mentioning what went wrong.

Classical conditioning is what turns people on or off to things. For too many kids, sports are just a venue for grown-ups to express their chronic disappointment.

Developmentally, kids having fun doing kid stuff is inherently transient. As they get older, they know damn well where they stand in the pecking order of their peers, and will take it upon themselves to get serious when the time is right for them. But if baseball is just a venue for dad to get pissed off about picking dandelions in the outfield, then this baseball career is over before it started. And that's a mild version.

I work with two ex-baseball pitchers. One college, one minor leagues. They coach pitching as a side job. They get parents of wanting excessive work during off season. He has to remind them: "Nobody is throwing at this time of year. Not college. Not pros. Nobody. Nobody should be throwing. At all."

You don't need a good attitude to simply show up I suppose....but you do need functioning shoulders!

 

[BunjaeKorea]

Anyone with good intentions, trying to learn something new, the coach should perceive that someone's screw-up still represents that kid's 100% ability for that moment. It might have been 50% wrong, but it's also 50% right. Question is, are you going to hit the brakes and mention the bad, or hit the gas and praise the heck out of the good? The only thing which should be mentioned is recognition of their effort and what TO DO; as opposed to mentioning what went wrong.

Classical conditioning is what turns people on or off to things. For too many kids, sports are just a venue for grown-ups to express their chronic disappointment.

Developmentally, kids having fun doing kid stuff is inherently transient. As they get older, they know damn well where they stand in the pecking order of their peers, and will take it upon themselves to get serious when the time is right for them. But if baseball is just a venue for dad to get pissed off about picking dandelions in the outfield, then this baseball career is over before it started. And that's a mild version.

I work with two ex-baseball pitchers. One college, one minor leagues. They coach pitching as a side job. They get parents of wanting excessive work during off season. He has to remind them: "Nobody is throwing at this time of year. Not college. Not pros. Nobody. Nobody should be throwing. At all."

You don't need a good attitude to simply show up I suppose....but you do need functioning shoulders!

Less encouraging and more beatings I say.....during the Victorian era kids were already working at age 7.....kids these days need to pick up the slack

 

[Vance Wood]

This is what is wrong with social media. It’s easy to be ugly to someone when you don’t do it face to face. I feel the same as you in that there are tons of help here but all of a sudden things turn for the worse. I was reading a post the other day, and it was very informative, but around the 3rd page the topic of soil came up and just like that the pissiness walked in the room. It took about 4 pages before the group got back on target.
Those type of conversations I don’t have room for in my life, it’s way too short.
I have used the ignore button numerous times. This members may have great information to relay, but the cost of receiving that information is just too high.

You ought to try being an apprentice to one of the Japanese masters. The trouble with the ignore button is at some point you may find yourself faced with some idea that you think you can use but you have no clue where it came from or who authored it.

 

[sorce]

The only thing which should be mentioned is recognition of their effort and what TO DO; as opposed to mentioning what went wrong.

I believe this is so behind "empty your cup".

Same like Only speaking positive of trees!
(When discussing, there is no positive or negative, only what is and what isn't, what could be, and what else could be, all neutral, it serves a student here well to understand this)

Humans Simply don't have the emotional space for Negativity.

People that argue this don't understand the difference between learning from mistakes.....and Pointing fingers...
What makes me sick, is we as adults have both benefited from mistakes, and felt poor from fingers pointed, yet we do not care for our children enough to utilize this good knowledge and raise them well.

But I believe Everyone has the ability to Realize this.
So I blame the Media.

I had a theory on Concious Evolution about 12 years before I heard it on a Ted Talk.
ValifuckingStephenHawkingsdation.

We are not consciously evolving fast enough to beat technology.

The internet can be the Human Myc.

Or it can be our absolute downfall.

The Men who designed it realize their mistakes.
But much like Vance and his Boxes, more wealth came along and Greed ruined the honest truth and good will that something was intended for.

And it is out of a good man's hands.

Bringing truth to this...

Evil Wins only if Good Men do Nothing.

I am Finished doing nothing.

Sorce

 

[sorce]

Less encouraging and more beatings I say.....during the Victorian era kids were already working at age 7.....kids these days need to pick up the slack

Amen but there was an Honesty behind that hand that has been replaced with fear.

Truth first or BS reigns free.

It is because like me, the Japanese Already Dwell in this place of Zen. Unconciously, because that is it's very nature. Enlightenment is this, realizing amd not realizing.

That's why....

You ought to try being an apprentice to one of the Japanese masters.

Because it works, because they already don't waste time on BS.

You know who else don't waste time on BS!?

W.P.!

BS is just evil after properly defined.

Sorce

 

[Nybonsai12]

.

Beginners and newcomers here sometimes come with a lot of baggage

Id say 7/10.
Some come because their mallsai is already dead and they need to know what to do. Some need styling suggestions for their seedlings, but they are already leaning toward a cascade. Some want to know what lights they should grow their conifers and deciduous trees under during winter. Some want to announce they are growing blue maples from seed. Some announce they intend on breaking the rules because this is an art and they like quirky style treees that make them happy. Some are know it alls on all topics from bonsai to science to politics. Seems to me most of these folks vanish before their post count hits 100.

Some genuinely want to learn and come with an open mind to advice, criticism and actually listening to people with years of real world experience. Those are the ones that deserve help and guidance. There are some great folks here with years of experience but I understand more and more why they are less and less interested in spending time here to coddle noobs.

 

[BonsaiFurLife]

Much easier to just ignore and move on than be a dick and bash/break people down. I get people ask dumb fucking questions sometimes, but theres alot of people in this world. Who were all raised differently. They cant all be sensible and intelligent. Doesnt mean they need coddling, but they sure dont need belligerent douchbags breaking them down. U can be real and honest w/o being a complete douche. Ive read old stacy muse arguments on here and there are some who just dont give a fuck and enjoy a good shit talking post. Thats fine. But no reason to break Folks down bc of ignorance. Be hard if its required but bet kind as well. Just cause u are giving advice doesnt mean ur being kind. Im no saint and sometimes i dont practice what i preach. But i try to Make a difference.[/QUOTE]

.

Id say 7/10.
Some come because their mallsai is already dead and they need to know what to do. Some need styling suggestions for their seedlings, but they are already leaning toward a cascade. Some want to know what lights they should grow their conifers and deciduous trees under during winter. Some want to announce they are growing blue maples from seed. Some announce they intend on breaking the rules because this is an art and they like quirky style treees that make them happy. Some are know it alls on all topics from bonsai to science to politics. Seems to me most of these folks vanish before their post count hits 100.

Some genuinely want to learn and come with an open mind to advice, criticism and actually listening to people with years of real world experience. Those are the ones that deserve help and guidance. There are some great folks here with years of experience but I understand more and more why they are less and less interested in spending time here to coddle noobs.[/QUOT

 

[GrimLore]

Grimmy

 

[Cadillactaste]

Im no saint and sometimes i dont practice what i preach. But i try to Make a difference.

[/QUOTE]



This doesn't apply to most...then I don't know what gives...with your preaching to the choir!?! Stacy Muse...why bring him up? He doesn't even come to the forum any more? Are you...defending him? Just curious by your comment. What side of the fence you just crossed to.

 

[BonsaiFurLife]

What threads werent deleted were several pages long of just absolute bashing. Basically for nothing. Y? Maybe because some just like the argument. Everyone else put their opinions out here. Figured i would as well. I dont even know the guy but some of his posts made sense. Others i thought wtf. The ones that stood out to me are the calling out of how noobs are treated. Might have to be "thick skinned" to be on this site but not practice bonsai. Future generations shouldnt be weeded out like that. It is very discouraging.

 

[milehigh_7]

Less encouraging and more beatings I say.....during the Victorian era kids were already working at age 7.....kids these days need to pick up the slack

 

[Cadillactaste]

Honestly.

What threads werent deleted were several pages long of just absolute bashing. Basically for nothing. Y? Maybe because some just like the argument. Everyone else put their opinions out here. Figured i would as well. I dont even know the guy but some of his posts made sense. Others i thought wtf. The ones that stood out to me are the calling out of how noobs are treated. Might have to be "thick skinned" to be on this site but not practice bonsai. Future generations shouldnt be weeded out like that. It is very discouraging.

...how about some facts. When I was new here...I defended that man. Yup...learned his character and he and I are like water and vinegar. Most know I am tolerant and really try not to be judgmental of ones character. But to not know the "just" of what went down back then and what was deleted...to try and relate it to here and now...is futile at best. Sorry...you lost me. I am done...

 

[rockm]

Much easier to just ignore and move on than be a dick and bash/break people down. I get people ask dumb fucking questions sometimes, but theres alot of people in this world. Who were all raised differently. They cant all be sensible and intelligent. Doesnt mean they need coddling, but they sure dont need belligerent douchbags breaking them down. U can be real and honest w/o being a complete douche. Ive read old stacy muse arguments on here and there are some who just dont give a fuck and enjoy a good shit talking post. Thats fine. But no reason to break Folks down bc of ignorance. Be hard if its required but bet kind as well. Just cause u are giving advice doesnt mean ur being kind. Im no saint and sometimes i dont practice what i preach. But i try to Make a difference.

[/QUOTE]

I was honest with Stacy when he first joined. I made the mistake of saying in a post that Lousiana-collected Bald Cypress were a lot more winter hardy than Florida-collected bald cypress (which is kind of a no-brainer as La. actually HAS winter and Fla. mostly doesn't) I politely wrote that I had overwintered BOTH La. and Fla. collected trees side by side in my backyard for years. The Fla. tree, I said, eventually weakened and died. I still have the La. tree.

Stacy "informed" me (out of the blue in one of his initial posts here in kind of insulting terms) that I was an overbearing knowitall idiot that had somehow insulted him and his state with my "opinion" about tree hardiness. I asked if he was serious. and GOOD LORD, he was S-E-R-I-O-U-S as a heart attack. He took what I had said as a Personal Insult to his state and, for some reason, his bonsai abilities. He made it a point from that then on to being a complete tool if you even hinted that his opinion or latest idiotic suggestion miiiiight be wrong.

He wasn't the first person like that here. One newbie from South Texas posted dozen times before taking it on himself to become an overwintering expert for newbies in Vermont and other points north--when he had NEVER experienced an actual winter, much less protected his trees from one. I hear he has moved on and become a Facebook sensation.

I could go on and on...

The problem with the "don't be a douchebag" approach is that, well, sometimes you DO have to be a douchebag. Enough of a douchebag to tire the small percentage of miserable, misinformed loudmouths out...

 

[BonsaiFurLife]

Im not defending him. Im sure hes a douchbag too. Too many of us are. its one thing to be a complete dick to someone u know or have crossed paths with before but i dont think it should be survival of the fittest when it comes to something like bonsai. Not calling any one out. But a lil kindness goes alot further than a ton of douchness.


I was honest with Stacy when he first joined. I made the mistake of saying in a post that Lousiana-collected Bald Cypress were a lot more winter hardy than Florida-collected bald cypress (which is kind of a no-brainer as La. actually HAS winter and Fla. mostly doesn't) I politely wrote that I had overwintered BOTH La. and Fla. collected trees side by side in my backyard for years. The Fla. tree, I said, eventually weakened and died. I still have the La. tree.

Stacy "informed" me (out of the blue in one of his initial posts here in kind of insulting terms) that I was an overbearing knowitall idiot that had somehow insulted him and his state with my "opinion" about tree hardiness. I asked if he was serious. and GOOD LORD, he was S-E-R-I-O-U-S as a heart attack. He took what I had said as a Personal Insult to his state and, for some reason, his bonsai abilities. He made it a point from that then on to being a complete tool if you even hinted that his opinion or latest idiotic suggestion miiiiight be wrong.

He wasn't the first person like that here. One newbie from South Texas posted dozen times before taking it on himself to become an overwintering expert for newbies in Vermont and other points north--when he had NEVER experienced an actual winter, much less protected his trees from one. I hear he has moved on and become a Facebook sensation.

I could go on and on...

The problem with the "don't be a douchebag" approach is that, well, sometimes you DO have to be a douchebag. Enough of a douchebag to tire the small percentage of miserable, misinformed loudmouths out...[/QUOTE]

 

[Smoke]

I’m glad everyone else picked up my slack with the bunny pot; you guys are the best

Also, this:
View attachment 184760
Stick in a Pot!

Your wire staples are made wrong dip shit!

 

[GrimLore]

I could go on and on...

The problem with the "don't be a douchebag" approach is that, well, sometimes you DO have to be a douchebag. Enough of a douchebag to tire the small percentage of miserable, misinformed loudmouths out...

On a positive note you and I can go back and forth on a subject, get a bit "into it" and discuss it... As you stated for "special" people you must take the douchebag approach which as you have seen me do here to others, often quite rudely. It has to happen in Forums, done deal.

Grimmy

 

[GrimLore]

Your wire staples are made wrong dip shit!

Happy to see you back and in a great mood! Serious

Grimmy

 

[Paulpash]

Sometimes the 'noob' strikes back.

The only negative experience I've had on this site was with @Smoke who basically called me out for my (lack of) grafting experience. @sorce can maybe remember the thread in which I posted half a dozen past grafts to prove I wasn't just some 'internet blowhard'-I do many most years and I've been doing bonsai a long time now. At the time it really pissed me off but the best way to deal with such a situation is just to post some pics and suddenly everything goes silent. He's asked for trees in this thread so here's a few from this season- can you guess the common theme LOL?

Current thread graft on Larch - it's taken - can you see the obvious difference in girth comparing entry to exit? The one below it is also a thread graft I did 5/6 years back as a sacrifice.
IMG_20180402_180458_DRO by Paul Pashley, on Flickr

Katsura
IMG_20180402_180426_DRO by Paul Pashley, on Flickr

Big maple I dug up from the beds - grafting a new apex
IMG_20180402_180420_DRO by Paul Pashley, on Flickr

Crabapple - funky shot
IMG_20180402_180444_DRO by Paul Pashley, on Flickr

More maples
IMG_20180402_180354_DRO by Paul Pashley, on Flickr

IMG_20180402_180406_DRO by Paul Pashley, on Flickr

IMG_20180402_180346_DRO by Paul Pashley, on Flickr

 

[AlainK]

Im not defending him.

Don't know who you are talking about : page 15 must be the limit where a legitimate question turns into "Bad Day at B-Nut"

I read some sensible, interesting contributions to the initial question, but now it seems to get personal, sour. In way, to reply to the first post, by "Gsquared" : yes, there's some bitchiness here, but I don't mind.

What I appreciate is that once people calm down, on a different subject, one can "put the knives away" as we say here (you know, we have very strict gun control: I still have scars form fights when I was much, much younger, but not a coffin for my parents to cry on).

What's the equivalent in american English? Let's bury the muskeet/ war hatchet?

Oh,... You shouldn't have mentionned beer, the local convenience store was open on this Easter Monday, and I can feel my teeth turning into sharp fangs - ha ha ha, were are your silver bullets? I'm immune to garlic you fools !!!

OK, was just trying to be funny.

YOU UNDERSTAND?

I'LL KILL MYSELF IF YOU DON'T, AND EVERYBODY AROUND TOO BECAUSE I KNOW YOU HATE ME, AND I HATE EVERYBODY!!!

- - - - - OMG! I've just compromised any chance to travel to the USA, I must be in all the databases of the NRA, the CIA, the FBI, etc.

15 pages.

Bitchyness...................................................

Already posted that, but I like it:

 

[ColinFraser]

Your wire staples are made wrong dip shit!

Love you too Snookums ?