Best species for shade? Does anyone have experience with too little sun and finding plants that thrive in pots in low light?

[Highbidjj]

Hi all,
I've been casting about for a while now and have not yet found the trees that I can consistently have success with. I think I have decided my primary challenge is how to have thriving trees on my decidedly heavily shaded property. I am hoping some of you here can give me some guidance of where to focus my interest.

I'll explain;

I live about as far North as you can go in the lower 48 U.S. states but my climate here in Puget Sound is very mild, all things considered. I have had the same home for 17 years and I am never moving. I chose this home for its acres of tall timber. I have dozens of mature Douglas Fir, Big Leaf Maples and Red Cedar. They range from 80ft to 200ft tall. It is a very serene and beutiful place. I am very blessed with all the big trees.

BUT! Living so far North means that for half of the year, the sun is on the Southern Horizon all day. My property is slightly downslope from the South and the adjacent properties are unspoiled woods. A sunny day in Autumn or Spring consists of a few peekaboo sun beams.

I have never lost a plant to freezing and barely protect them, just move the pots close to the house, setting on the garden dirt.

But all of my attempts at the likes of JPB just fade away over a few years.

Vine Maples and Azaleas do ok. Hemlocks and Spruce have been modest. But, it seems that most things I bring home just slowly fade away.

Thoughts?

 

[Highbidjj]

I guess I should point out, these are a couple of random pics from my phone taken on a wide angle lens. In foto 1, that is a normal sized house trash can near the bas of a Douglas Fir that goes about 150ft, last time we scoped it 10 years or so ago.

In pic two, the wooden fence in back left center is a standard 6ft panel. That garden near the house is to keep the deer out of the decorative plantings.

Seasonally, I am constantly moving bonsai.

 

[hinmo24t]

Nice property

Maples id suggest

 

[Highbidjj]

Just for fun, my old orchard that bears no fruit and an interesting Western Red Cedar trunk. These are all competing for the sun.

 

[River's Edge]

Hi all,
I've been casting about for a while now and have not yet found the trees that I can consistently have success with. I think I have decided my primary challenge is how to have thriving trees on my decidedly heavily shaded property. I am hoping some of you here can give me some guidance of where to focus my interest.

I'll explain;

I live about as far North as you can go in the lower 48 U.S. states but my climate here in Puget Sound is very mild, all things considered. I have had the same home for 17 years and I am never moving. I chose this home for its acres of tall timber. I have dozens of mature Douglas Fir, Big Leaf Maples and Red Cedar. They range from 80ft to 200ft tall. It is a very serene and beutiful place. I am very blessed with all the big trees.

BUT! Living so far North means that for half of the year, the sun is on the Southern Horizon all day.View attachment 408620View attachment 408621 My property is slightly downslope from the South and the adjacent properties are unspoiled woods. A sunny day in Autumn or Spring consists of a few peekaboo sun beams.

I have never lost a plant to freezing and barely protect them, just move the pots close to the house, setting on the garden dirt.

But all of my attempts at the likes of JPB just fade away over a few years.

Vine Maples and Azaleas do ok. Hemlocks and Spruce have been modest. But, it seems that most things I bring home just slowly fade away.

Thoughts?

Kingsville Boxwood is a good choice for more shaded areas. Sawara Cypress is another good choice often referred to as "Tskumho" ? Alaskan Yellow Cedar does well in shade. Many Japanese maples are better choices for shaded areas as well. If you want a real good shade choice but not used frequently for Bonsai consider Camellia. A few thoughts to get you started.

 

[Highbidjj]

Awesome! Thank you. I have several large Camillia in the gardens and never realized they could work. Alaska Yellow Cedar has been on my wish list for a while so now I can get serious about that. The others are completely new to me and I will read up on em.

Thanks again!

 

[Lorax7]

It may be worth it to pick up a copy of this book. This was actually the first book I got when I started my journey years ago when all I had was a little juniper mallsai. Some of the information about soil isn't really in line with what I'd do now. Nonetheless, I still refer to this book once in a while because it has a decent species guide. There's an overview of the needs of each tree and how to care for them specifically in the context of bonsai culture. There are some icons in the column next to each entry that give some basic information at a glance. Trees that do well in shade will have an icon of a tree underneath a yellow sun that has a blue cloud superimposed on it.

 

[Colorado]

Looks perfect for Japanese maples IMO

 

[Drewski]

You might want to have a look at yews. Some of them fare quite well in the shade.

 

[Highbidjj]

It may be worth it to pick up a copy of this book. This was actually the first book I got when I started my journey years ago when all I had was a little juniper mallsai. Some of the information about soil isn't really in line with what I'd do now. Nonetheless, I still refer to this book once in a while because it has a decent species guide. There's an overview of the needs of each tree and how to care for them specifically in the context of bonsai culture. There are some icons in the column next to each entry that give some basic information at a glance. Trees that do well in shade will have an icon of a tree underneath a yellow sun that has a blue cloud superimposed on it.

Thank you Lorax. I'll check it out.

 

[Highbidjj]

You might want to have a look at yews. Some of them fare quite well in the shade.

Now that you mention it, the couple of Yews I have are not doing badly. Thank you.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Japanese maples.
Camellias.
Azaleas.
Gardenias.
Hemlock (tsuga genus - not the poisonous kind )
Cypress (the coastal kind like Monterrey or Mendocino)

 

[hinmo24t]

from Washington State

 

[BrianBay9]

I second the boxwood. Any of the boxwoods.

 

[sorce]

Seasonally, I am constantly moving bonsai.

I have long held this belief that a tree knows it's exact position on earth. I've since seen hundreds of things to prove it true, and nothing to prove it false.
The more folks seem to move things, the more problems they seem to encounter.

In their one natural position they have, they spend every minute adapting to that position in order to be as healthy as possible. I believe keeping bonsai in this manner is better, because you're allowing the tree to do what it does.

Thinking they can suddenly and constantly adapt to different situations, is utterly ridiculous for us to think IMO. This is what causes what I call "confusion". Confusion leads to death, or worse, death of design, because that goes on to waste time as well.

The human analogy, would be to live an entire life as say, a welder, then be expected one day to be a surgeon and not kill anyone.

So I would first try to fix "problems" there. I don't believe light is an issue. I do believe 9/10 people are more prone to solve the problem an OP states, rather than addressing the problem could be completely different.

Light problems too, are obvious. Longer internodes, deeper green for better production, blah blah ...
But first, the trees must be allowed their "natural", in order for this to be obvious, so I would say, if you can't readily identify obvious light problems, the problem lies somewhere else first.

But what's more true than what I can say, is what the forest around you is speaking. Listen to it, it will tell you best what it will be in harmony with.

I don't think your JBP are dying due to lack of light, but I'd rather see you thrive with things from your forest anyway. Though I think you'll find them easier to keep when they're still.

My thoughts into position on earth led me to believe setting pots on the ground before fall allows them time to connect to the mycelium network, and get the signal when winter is coming.

Poor be the trees disconnected on garage shelves and concrete slabs of death.

It's all hearsay till we know more about care, etc.

We think light is your problem until we hear you cut them naked every spring, Repot twice a year, burn them for fun like me, introduce pests, don't water, blah blah blah.

That Auction is Open!

Sorce

 

[Highbidjj]

from Washington State

True, that garden is the same basic latitude, longitude and maritime climate as mine, but my particular problem is that there no nowhere on my property that gets sun anything like that between mid-September and March. It simply comes down to the 150ft wall on top of the 50ft rise all long my southern boundary.

I think I will have to resign myself to less prolific growth on the same species. That is a very nice collection.

 

[Highbidjj]

I have long held this belief that a tree knows it's exact position on earth. I've since seen hundreds of things to prove it true, and nothing to prove it false.
The more folks seem to move things, the more problems they seem to encounter.

In their one natural position they have, they spend every minute adapting to that position in order to be as healthy as possible. I believe keeping bonsai in this manner is better, because you're allowing the tree to do what it does.

Thinking they can suddenly and constantly adapt to different situations, is utterly ridiculous for us to think IMO. This is what causes what I call "confusion". Confusion leads to death, or worse, death of design, because that goes on to waste time as well.

The human analogy, would be to live an entire life as say, a welder, then be expected one day to be a surgeon and not kill anyone.

So I would first try to fix "problems" there. I don't believe light is an issue. I do believe 9/10 people are more prone to solve the problem an OP states, rather than addressing the problem could be completely different.

Light problems too, are obvious. Longer internodes, deeper green for better production, blah blah ...
But first, the trees must be allowed their "natural", in order for this to be obvious, so I would say, if you can't readily identify obvious light problems, the problem lies somewhere else first.

But what's more true than what I can say, is what the forest around you is speaking. Listen to it, it will tell you best what it will be in harmony with.

I don't think your JBP are dying due to lack of light, but I'd rather see you thrive with things from your forest anyway. Though I think you'll find them easier to keep when they're still.

My thoughts into position on earth led me to believe setting pots on the ground before fall allows them time to connect to the mycelium network, and get the signal when winter is coming.

Poor be the trees disconnected on garage shelves and concrete slabs of death.

It's all hearsay till we know more about care, etc.

We think light is your problem until we hear you cut them naked every spring, Repot twice a year, burn them for fun like me, introduce pests, don't water, blah blah blah.

That Auction is Open!

Sorce

A lot to think about there and you all have many true points for sure. The forest adjacent to me has only ever been logged once and here and there are a couple of true ancient trees that avoided that first harvest because they were too difficult to approach with only hand powered saws and skids to the water. The reason I moved here from a few miles away is because the trees are so large. I have only seen one fully mature full-sized evergreen transplanted and it took weeks, many men and many large machines. The trees I live amoug were here long before me and if I have anything to say about it, long after me.

And, yes, learning patience is one of my primary goals in this journey so I do need to be mindful not to play with the poor little trees to death. That said, healthy robust trees can bounce back much better. Mine rarely die outright so much as linger sadly.

I have taken a dart board or smorgasbord approach so far and it seems I need to focus. It's just so darned easy to get carried away going online and seeing so many amazing Junipers and Pines and species I never even knew of before I started to really research bonsai.

Here in Western Washington, wild Pines are uncommon at sea level and Big Leaf Maples, Firs, Western Hemock and Western Red Cedar (Thuja Plicata) abound. Rhodies are wild in the understory everywhere and every neighborhood for 100 miles in any direction has garden Azaleas, Maples, Camellias, Boxwood and Spruce. I know of spots with Shore Pines, Yews and Alders, but they are usually sunny patches after a clear cut. We have true microclimates.

I think I will stop trying to find yard-adori oddities for free on Craigslist or in nurseries on the other side of the mountains from me and focus on the optimal position for a nice bonsai garden with native-ish trees. Right here in my county I have two amazing specialist maple nurseries that can provide nearly any species and variety.

Thank you everyone for the good advice. It is much appreciated.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

You might try Hinoki - Chamaecyparis obtusa.

Look in the woods that are on your property. Look at which seedlings are sprouting and developing well IN THE SHADE. These are the species to think about using.

Also, I've owned by house for over 35 years. I was neglectful at cutting down volunteer trees. Even though I have only a 50 foot by 150 foot city lot, my little plot has become too heavily shaded. For the last couple years, I have a tree service come in and remove a thousand dollars worth of trees. I need to do this a couple more times.

Trees grow, sometimes if you want to see the sun, you got to take one or two of them out.

Now I am definitely not suggesting taking out an ancient giant tree, but perhaps see where removing a couple "adolescent trees" could open a window to the sun for you.

Although, given the way summers are getting hotter, and dryer, learning shade gardening is not a bad idea.

Hemlock, Tsuga, especially eastern hemlock, Tsuga canadensis, tolerates shade better than just about any other species of conifer. However to get tight growth, some sun is helpful. Look into shade gardening books. Some of the shrubs recommended for shade gardening can work well as bonsai. I don't have such a book myself. A little time on the internet would reveal much. Japanese maples are an obvious choice.

Blueberries, highbush blueberries, Vaccinium corymbosum grow well in open shade. Their fruit yield will be low in shade, but as bonsai, the focus is the spring flowers and the autumn color. Many members of genus Vaccinium grow well in shade. Blueberries, dwarf blueberries, whortleberries, bilberries and the several species of cranberries all have some shade tolerance. The culinary cranberry is the one that wants more sun, but the lesser known wild cranberries can tolerate some shade. The dwarf blueberries are quite good in the shade, only drawback is they are quite dwarf, tend to be "wispy", so their visual impact is low, they end up as kusamono more so than bonsai.

Do give Satsuki azalea a try. They get by on less light than one might think. Also look into "forest floor" species of shrubby rhododendrons, not the ones with big leaves, the little ones.

A number of vining plants develop woody trunks, Virginia creeper, Parthenocissus, will survive a long time in shade. Beech seedlings persist forever in shade, growing rapidly when a tree falls and they end up in some sun. Hornbeam, genus Carpinus, especially Carpinus caroliniana can get by in shade. Just an hour or two of sun will get you fairly normal growth.

You either have to fall in love with the obscure world of shade gardening, or you might have to resign yourself to selecting an adolescent tree or two to remove. I love old trees, but there are times when we have to figure out how to work around them.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Witch hazel, Hamamelis virginiana is quite shade tolerant. I don't know the western species, but worth checking out. Leaves are a little large and don't reduce much, but they are best in leafless autumn, winter and very early spring, where they bloom off and on all winter.

Spicebush, genus Lindera, the eastern variety is a shade lover, large leaves but a very nice image when it blooms with tiny yellow flowers before the leaves emerge in spring. Similar, look into dogwoods, they are somewhat shade tolerant as a genus.

Check out all the wild, native shrubs that are growing under your giant old trees. These are the ones you should look into.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Your failed orchard, that does not bear fruit, how about getting rid of those trees? Although location is key. Map out where you need the sun. Then try thinning out, or removing entirely the understory trees along that particular line of sight. Leave the tall canopy trees, as these are the ancient ones you love, clearing out the lower understory will allow more light though to the ground. Do this only along the sight lines where you want to get the sun to your bonsai. I'm not suggesting wide scale clearing of the whole property, that would be barbaric. Consider the idea. It may or may not be appropriate.