wire

[Dave E]

other than craft wire from home depot online seems the way to go to purchase wire(as it seems to be the case with many things these days).

so i was hoping you guys could give me some advice.
everything seems to be sold in grams,100 grams being common but i have no idea how many feet i'm getting.

my initial thought was to get a 7 pack from 1mm-6mm sizes increasing in 1/2mm increments,100 grams each.

but i have a feeling that i would only use a few sizes and may be better off purchasing single rolls.

so what would everyones advice be.
to let everyone know what we're working on-my son just got a japanese juniper small but with a fairly large trunk and stiff branches.and we are going to look around for well established nursery trees

 

[Nybonsai12]

Julian Adams of adams bonsai sells copper wire and usually offers a variety pack. It's a bit of everything and not too much of one size.

It's good to have a mix of different sizes and he sells quality annealed wire. Between him and Jim Gremel, there are no better copper wire sources in the US, at least not that i know of and I think most would agree with me. General rule is copper wire for conifers and aluminum for deciduous species.

 

[barrosinc]

stone lantern has kilogram aluminium rolls for like 20 bucks...

 

[skrit]

I bought a multi-pack similar to what you mention (I think it was 6 rolls though) from Amazon, and have been pretty happy with it. It gives me enough variety to fully wire out a tree. The really small stuff is less useful to me currently, but comes in handy for guy wires when pulling down branches. The heavy stuff (I got 3.5mm largest) I occasionally have to double up on for some larger branches, and might have likes some 4.5. or 5mm just for that. You'll probably go through your 2mm or 2.5mm the fastest; I seem to use 2mm most often when wiring and it's a good size for tying down trees when re-potting. Just remember that smaller diameter = more length when you're buying by weight. You'll get a LOT of the 1mm wire in a 100g spool. Then again, most trees have lots more small branches than they do large ones, so maybe it all balances out.

Wire is typically sold by weight because it's metal. This may seem silly, but because wire manufacturing costs are essentially fixed, the price is mostly dictated by the material cost. Thus, weight of the metal = cost to the customer, and resellers tend to provide equal weight spools, all sell for the same price to simplify their lives. I suppose they could go with an equal length spool (which would vary is size, weight, price and shipping cost) instead, but it's probably just not convenient to them.

 

[Adair M]

If you are doing Juniper, copper is the way to go.

Julian's wire is decent.

Jim Gremel's is better. His rolls are larger and the wire is longer, so it's more expensive to purchase a roll from him, but you get more wire.

If you're new to wiring, go to the Craftsy website: www.craftsy.com and watch Colin Lewis's wiring tutorial. You need to signup, but it's free, and the tutorial is free.

 

[JudyB]

And most of the time aluminum is best for deciduous trees (there are exceptions...) Ebay has a couple sellers with decent pricing, and there is some for sale on the FB bonsai sales page now that look good and decent price too.

 

[Dave E]

why does it make a difference using copper or aluminum-
i know the copper is stronger and if using aluminum you would need a thicker guage,but why should you use copper on some trees and aluminum on others

 

[MidMichBonsai]

A thicker gauge prevents the wire from biting in as quickly. Same strength over more surface area. Deciduous typically have more delicate bark but are prized for no marks hence...aluminum.

 

[Dave E]

i'm gonna go inexpensive most likely ebay to start.
i've got some pots from years ago but i need to get a couple trees and some tools and i just spent some $ on soil so trying to keep cost down

 

[Dave E]

when got into bonsai years ago i was using some home depot copper wire and i remember after a month or so the wire would start digging in and i'd have to replace it so it sounds like using wider guage is the way to go.
and i guess from what i've read ,a layer of raffia helps to protect the tree from the wire.is this correct?

 

[JudyB]

Copper is far more expensive than alum. for one thing. I find alum works just fine on D trees, and since it doesn't need to stay on as long (in most cases) as with conifers, you are not wasting money putting it on, to take it off 2-3 weeks later. You can't re-use copper, but can if you unwind alum. Aluminum also doesn't cut in as fast on thin barked D trees. I use copper if I have a big bend to do, but alum for regular wiring. You'll find many people with differing opinions on this issue.
I use copper for almost all conifers, as it stays on longer and holds it's shape better and is stronger for harder bending.

 

[JudyB]

when got into bonsai years ago i was using some home depot copper wire and i remember after a month or so the wire would start digging in and i'd have to replace it so it sounds like using wider guage is the way to go.
and i guess from what i've read ,a layer of raffia helps to protect the tree from the wire.is this correct?

In a month or so of growth, if the wire is digging in then the branch is probably set and ready to have the wire removed. Unless you are not wrapping consistently and it's only digging in on certain tighter wound spots. You can use raffia, or some use vet tape, and some use parafilm. Are you wiring D or conifers/evergreens?

 

[rockm]

Digging in that quickly usually means you've wired the tree too tightly, not necessarily that the wire's too thin. Raffia can help, but it is VERY tedious work wrapping wire. Use the smallest gauge that holds the limb. If one wire won't hold, try using two of the same gauge side by side--being careful not to cross them, but keep them parallel, instead of moving on to a thicker one. Thicker wire can make you overcompensate trying to bend the limb and break it.

 

[Dave E]

so it sounds like aluminum is the best option for me ,and it wouldn't hurt to get some heavy guage copper for big jobs

 

[Adair M]

Actually, Rockem, two thin parallel wires is not as strong as one properly sized wire.

I think one of Colin's Craftsy videos demonstrates that.

Learning how to wire properly takes a lot of practice. A well wired tree will have the minimum amount of wire necessary to do the job. It takes practice and patience and perseverance to learn to wire properly.

so it sounds like aluminum is the best option for me ,and it wouldn't hurt to get some heavy guage copper for big jobs

If you are going to be doing Juniper, you also need really small wire for detailing out the pads. Copper wire is indicated. Not aluminum. Aluminum is painted black. After about a month, the paint wears off, and it starts to look silver.

If you're doing juniper, do it right. Go copper.

Gets some in every gauge between 4 and 20.

 

[JudyB]

With copper, you can use a thinner wire to do the same bend that would take a heavier alum wire to do and hold. Here is a trick that I find works well, take a short length of your chosen gauge that you think will work, push it against the branch you want to bend. If the wire bends before the branch, pick a heavier gauge.

 

[Cypress187]

If i really want to be cheap can i also use the electrical wire (copper) with the plastic around it? They bend nice but/and are thicker.

 

[DougB]

No not the electrical wire for a big box. Unless you remove everything from the copper and anneal the wire. Copper over aluminum is because copper is stronger in a smaller size. Also you will need some bonsai wire cutters (designed to carefully cut the wire from a branch without cutting the branch. Wire pliers are also very useful not only for wire, but for jin and shari. Good luck

 

[Cypress187]

I mean this:

 

[Cypress187]

I can use the brown for branches and green for foilage and the colored for the flowers