Why I don't use turface anymore (with pics)

[davetree]

Either my Turface (MVP) is bigger or you are mistaken. I would say it is at least twice to 3x that.

Your turface must be bigger. I just looked at two different bags of MVP and 80% was about 1/16". About 20% was 1/8" maximum.

 

[Poink88]

Your turface must be bigger. I just looked at two different bags of MVP and 80% was about 1/16". About 20% was 1/8" maximum.

I need to re-check when I get home. I could be mistaken but I swear they are much bigger than 1/16" (in my mind).

 

[davetree]

If the turface here was 3/16" I would use it in just about everything.

 

[nathanbs]

It seems "free draining" is relatively defined. With finer ingredients there will be more lag before water totally flushes down (no contesting that)...but we are just talking mere seconds difference here (if that).

To me, I see that as an advantage actually. Being a miser, I want the water and fertilizer to have time to adhere before leaving the pot. Waste is waste in my book.

If I want less water, I will use a smaller pot or reduce my soil. Problem solved (also).

Dave, not questioning you. Just pointing out things so it doesn't get clouded for some. I am sure they are as confused now as they could ever be with all the arguments going on. LOL

I am here to balance and present the other side, not to skew facts.

keep in mind the faster your soil dries out, the faster you can water, the more you can fertilize, the more things will grow. This is all assuming you are home to water when it is drying out and that you stay on top of your fertilizer regimen

 

[Poink88]

keep in mind the faster your soil dries out, the faster you can water, the more you can fertilize, the more things will grow. This is all assuming you are home to water when it is drying out and that you stay on top of your fertilizer regimen

Which I cannot do. I need a substrate that can stretch the whole day...maybe 2 w/o my trees drying because of my availability and other conditions.

They are constantly fertilized...through the inorganics I mix with my "soil". No worries about watering to get them fed. I keep bonsai on the simple side. Soil may be more complicated to mix but I (and my trees) reap the reward regularly after.

 

[davetree]

It's not just about drainage. Roots like water vapor, they grow really well in medium with bigger spaces, or more available space. Also the more oxygen in the root zone, the less chance of disease.

 

[Poink88]

It's not just about drainage. Roots like water vapor, they grow really well in medium with bigger spaces, or more available space. Also the more oxygen in the root zone, the less chance of disease.

I honestly am not smart enough to argue that. Not even sure about the validity of it. All I know is that trees in nature get a lot less space/voids/air/etc. than my plants in my mix per cubic inch and they are thriving.

I do not claim my substrate is the best either...just good enough. It suits me, my weather, my style, my budget, my restrictions, etc.

 

[davetree]

I honestly am not smart enough to argue that. Not even sure about the validity of it. All I know is that trees in nature get a lot less space/voids/air/etc. than my plants in my mix per cubic inch and they are thriving.

I do not claim my substrate is the best either...just good enough. It suits me, my weather, my style, my budget, my restrictions, etc.

You may not be sure about the validity of it but I am. Look it up if you don't believe me.

 

[Poink88]

You may not be sure about the validity of it but I am. Look it up if you don't believe me.

I believe you and know most of it is true...again the question is what is the range? Do I need more than 1/16"space? If bigger is better, then using 12" rocks is better? No, right?

There is an acceptable range and saying "bigger or more is better" is (to me) simply not true.

To me, it is easier to just judge how the tree react. I tried this substrate, it didn't work, I try another. Eventually, I found something that works perfectly, I stick to it even if everyone says my tree is doomed. The tree tells me otherwise. Who do I listen to?

 

[davetree]

I honestly am not smart enough to argue that. Not even sure about the validity of it. All I know is that trees in nature get a lot less space/voids/air/etc. than my plants in my mix per cubic inch and they are thriving.

I do not claim my substrate is the best either...just good enough. It suits me, my weather, my style, my budget, my restrictions, etc.

I am not saying your mix is bad. I don't even know what exactly you use ! If you have 3/16 turface send me some !

My Kingsville boxwood seem to love turface mix ....

 

[Smoke]

Eventually, I found something that works perfectly, I stick to it even if everyone says my tree is doomed. The tree tells me otherwise. Who do I listen to?

I don't remember anyone ever saying your trees are doomed? We get it you love your cheap mix. There are others that would like to try other things that have the money and resources to do it. It's not a competition.

 

[Poink88]

If you have 3/16 turface send me some !

I will check and will do. How about 1/8" will that work for you? PM me how much you need.

 

[nathanbs]

I believe you and know most of it is true...again the question is what is the range? Do I need more than 1/16"space? If bigger is better, then using 12" rocks is better? No, right?

There is an acceptable range and saying "bigger or more is better" is (to me) simply not true.

To me, it is easier to just judge how the tree react. I tried this substrate, it didn't work, I try another. Eventually, I found something that works perfectly, I stick to it even if everyone says my tree is doomed. The tree tells me otherwise. Who do I listen to?

the sizing i mentioned previously 1/16"-1/4" came from R. Neil. I know Al has success with even larger than 1/4" and so do I but only with my tridents. Everything else for the most part seems to like a little less air.

 

[Lazylightningny]

I will check and will do. How about 1/8" will that work for you? PM me how much you need.

let's break out the calipers, boys, and get to the bottom of this.

 

[Gene Deci]

So, I just went and took a pinch of MVP straight from the bag. There were 11 pieces in the sample. The largest was ¼ inch in its longest dimension and the smallest was 1/8 inch in its longest dimension. But none of them were round. The smallest dimension ranged from 1/16 inch to 1/8 inch.

So, I don’t know what people mean when they “quantify” the size of turface

 

[nathanbs]

So, I just went and took a pinch of MVP straight from the bag. There were 11 pieces in the sample. The largest was ¼ inch in its longest dimension and the smallest was 1/8 inch in its longest dimension. But none of them were round. The smallest dimension ranged from 1/16 inch to 1/8 inch.

So, I don’t what people mean when they “quantify” the size of turface

Is there more than one variety? Perhaps the trouble lays in the brick like shape where the it creates a very tight pattern versus rounded shapes that cannot link together so well?

 

[Poink88]

In construction (especially) concrete structures...waterproofing the shell (especially the roof) is very important. It is amazing how well water can find the tiniest crack and flow down. It follows the path of least resistance...even if the outfall is at the other side of the building...hundreds of yards away.

Same is true in pot culture...water will follow the path of least resistance. If water can find a tiny crack in concrete...it won't have any difficulty finding ways around granular aggregates.

Stop over analyzing it people.

 

[nathanbs]

In construction (especially) concrete structures...waterproofing the shell (especially the roof) is very important. It is amazing how well water can find the tiniest crack and flow down. It follows the path of least resistance...even if the outfall is at the other side of the building...hundreds of yards away.

Same is true in pot culture...water will follow the path of least resistance. If water can find a tiny crack in concrete...it won't have any difficulty finding ways around granular aggregates.

Stop over analyzing it people.

Dario its through experience that people(me included) have had problems with turface having dry pockets and staying too wet. Its fact not theory. The theories are why is it doing it, not whether its actually doing it. That has already been proven and can be weighed in firewood

 

[Poink88]

Dario its through experience that people(me included) have had problems with turface having dry pockets and staying too wet. Its fact not theory. The theories are why is it doing it, not whether its actually doing it. That has already been proven and can be weighed in firewood

Oh I have too and actually the first to post a thread about it here a year ago (that I know). Again, once amended, that problem goes away.

 

[Vance Wood]

It really only boiles down to one argument. Do your trees grow well in the kind of soil mix you are using. The old all time classic one liner: If it ain't broke don't fix it.