Specimen Bonsai...who buys them?

[Shogun610]

Whenever the price of trees gets discussed, the argument of “deserving” or “checkbook writers” or “more rewarding creating than buying” always gets brought up at nauseam(despite the original OP not even asking about that)

To simply answer the original question; it’s what the market will bear. There’s obviously buyers who see the value and are able/willing to spend. It’s not unique to the bonsai market. I’m definitely one who has and will pay thousands(tens actually) for a tree that I personally see value in. They don’t even have to be “bonsai” yet. Heck, I’m 6 digits in, for a group of Yamadori I purchased last fall that aren’t even ready for 2 more years. I guess I better go learn how to be deserving of them

Exactly .. Go learn how to be deserving of them and then work on the trees yourself without spending money on the styling would be a requisite of anyone spending 6 digits on material

 

[Shogun610]

Whenever the price of trees gets discussed, the argument of “deserving” or “checkbook writers” or “more rewarding creating than buying” always gets brought up at nauseam(despite the original OP not even asking about that)

To simply answer the original question; it’s what the market will bear. There’s obviously buyers who see the value and are able/willing to spend. It’s not unique to the bonsai market. I’m definitely one who has and will pay thousands(tens actually) for a tree that I personally see value in. They don’t even have to be “bonsai” yet. Heck, I’m 6 digits in, for a group of Yamadori I purchased last fall that aren’t even ready for 2 more years. I guess I better go learn how to be deserving of them

And it is relevant it’s completely different know how to develop your own material vs buying something finished .. your opinion is no more or less valid than my remarks you can certainly directly respond to my message or directly for further discussion

 

[pandacular]

When we're talking about "checkbook bonsai," I think part of the issue is credit. Let's say hypothetically I grew a tree from seed for thirty years, and I entered it into the national show when it was ready. Then, let's say Joe Schmoe from Kalamazoo spent six figures on a tree developed for a decade by Kimura. Joe Schmoe comes in first place, and my tree is second place. Did I lose to Joe Schmoe, or did I lose to Kimura?

Your tree lost to their tree. Take ego out of it. Talk to these people, and more often than not they don’t talk about it as anything but a tree they support. Read the PBE program if you want an example of it, everyone gave credit to the professionals they worked with.

 

[shimbrypaku]

If you have the money and it makes you happy, it shouldn’t ruffle anyone’s feathers.
We all only live once, make the most of your time on this blue marble.

 

[Gabler]

Your tree lost to their tree. Take ego out of it. Talk to these people, and more often than not they don’t talk about it as anything but a tree they support. Read the PBE program if you want an example of it, everyone gave credit to the professionals they worked with.

That's a good point.

 

[Shogun610]

If you have the money and it makes you happy, it shouldn’t ruffle anyone’s feathers.
We all only live once, make the most of your time on this blue marble.

If nothing ever ruffles your feathers (not saying you, but in general) then you lead a passionless sterile existence. And if people are passionate and want to express disagreement and different viewpoints then they out to do so ..

 

[shimbrypaku]

When you have lived my life, you learn to be a duck.

 

[Shogun610]

If you have the money and it makes you happy, it shouldn’t ruffle anyone’s feathers.
We all only live once, make the most of your time on this blue marble.

And tell that to
The ones that have the money .. they clearly did not get to where they were by simply just existing

 

[shimbrypaku]

Everyone take a different path.

 

[Shogun610]

Everyone take a different path.

Also you can reply directly to someone .. or type in a @.

 

[shimbrypaku]

No need, this thread is fine, thanks for your concern.

 

[yashu]

If nothing ever ruffles your feathers (not saying you, but in general) then you lead a passionless sterile existence. And if people are passionate and want to express disagreement and different viewpoints then they out to do so ..

If I read that correctly, they said if someone has the money to do a thing it shouldn’t ruffle anyone’s feathers… nothing about never having one’s feathers ruffled

 

[shohin_branches]

When we're talking about "checkbook bonsai," I think part of the issue is credit. Let's say hypothetically I grew a tree from seed for thirty years, and I entered it into the national show when it was ready. Then, let's say Joe Schmoe from Kalamazoo spent six figures on a tree developed for a decade by Kimura. Joe Schmoe comes in first place, and my tree is second place. Did I lose to Joe Schmoe, or did I lose to Kimura?

At the Midwest Bonsai show last August a guy was bragging to me that he bought his Portulacaria afra off the Facebook auctions and got it a week before the show.

 

[Ply]

The thread kind of derailed, as is often the case with this topic. Just do your own thing and don't worry so much about what others do or think. Take ego out of the equation and you'll live a much happier live.

 

[dbonsaiw]

If nothing ever ruffles your feathers (not saying you, but in general) then you lead a passionless sterile existence.

I dodged that bullet

 

[rockm]

When we're talking about "checkbook bonsai," I think part of the issue is credit. Let's say hypothetically I grew a tree from seed for thirty years, and I entered it into the national show when it was ready. Then, let's say Joe Schmoe from Kalamazoo spent six figures on a tree developed for a decade by Kimura. Joe Schmoe comes in first place, and my tree is second place. Did I lose to Joe Schmoe, or did I lose to Kimura?

Competition is different. PAssing someone else's work off as your own isn't bonsai. The line where a tree you bought becomes "yours" is grey territory. It's not as clear cut as "i grew it myself," but at some point, a purchased "finished" tree becomes "yours" as you make design decisions, some large some small. Is it honest to enter a tree you just bought into a competition? What kind of competition? At the higher levels, all this is kind of moot. Trees in Japan are officially shown by their owners not their caretakers, and winners of competition may not have laid a hand on it. The nursery owner doesn't get credit from what I understand.

 

[Tidal Bonsai]

 

[Gabler]

Trees in Japan are officially shown by their owners not their caretakers, and winners of competition may not have laid a hand on it. The nursery owner doesn't get credit from what I understand.

This is sort of what I'm talking about. That might be fine in the Japanese culture, but it absolutely does not jibe with Western (especially American) values. If we're talking about what distinguishes American bonsai from Asian bonsai, I would say it's the emphasis on DIY. Part of that is out of necessity, since we don't have a bonsai industry like Japan, but part of it is also baked into American values. Bonsai is for everyone, and anyone can learn how to do it and enjoy it.

I think that might be what Fidur was getting at. He likes that his trees are all his own, even if he could afford to buy nicer trees grown by others.

 

[yashu]

The thread kind of derailed, as is often the case with this topic. Just do your own thing and don't worry so much about what others do or think. Take ego out of the equation and you'll live a much happier live.

DON’T TELL ME WHAT TO DO!

 

[Tidal Bonsai]

On a more serious note, I have one more important thing to add to this discussion. Regardless of price, buy trees because you love them, and have a vested interest in their future!

I have seen just as many people win shows with expensive trees, as I have seen them lose shows. I have also heard stories of grown adults brought to tears because their 5 figure tree that they just bought didn’t win anything… please don’t be one of those people