Specimen Bonsai...who buys them?

[yashu]

Perhaps like in most cases, pictures don’t really show the tree to best advantage. I still don’t think it’s well made, but that is my opinion. Maybe it was in the sales area?

Bjorn brought a lot of trees to the Nationals that he was getting rid of. This was immediately before he was moving to Japan. That said I don’t think he would sell his father’s tree but who knows. I would assume that like many shows some things get in for other reasons than that the tree itself is outstanding.

 

[yashu]

Bjorn brought a lot of trees to the Nationals that he was getting rid of. This was immediately before he was moving to Japan. That said I don’t think he would sell his father’s tree but who knows. I would assume that like many shows some things get in for other reasons than that the tree itself is outstanding.

Just checked up on this. Well apparently he sold several trees that he and his dad had created or worked on so I’ll take back that thing about doubting he sell his dad’s tree… he probably did.

 

[rockm]

This debate is excellent. You're both making interesting arguments without resorting to ad hominem attacks. I do have one question for @rockm, though. It's not to undermine your point, but to figure out how I can advance my own practice of bonsai.

If growing your own trees from seed is not the best source of raw material, then what specifically is the best source of material?

To put that same question a bit differently, every tree came from a seed. It either germinated on its own, or someone planted it. What makes it bad for me to plant that seed myself, instead of buying a tree that someone else planted a long time ago? Is it just a factor of time? If humans lived five hundred years, would your answer be different? Is it a matter of skill in laying the foundation for a future bonsai when the tree is young? If so, then shouldn't it be possible to learn that skill and then succeed at growing trees from seed? You say to start with better material, but what is preventing me from creating my own better material?

Again, I'm not asking a rhetorical question. I really want to know the answer.

I think someone already said that it depends on who planted the seed. Someone who knows how to grow for bonsai-spread nebari gradual taper etc. anyone can plant a seed. It’s the constant attention to details that need to be paid attention to. Unless you’ve been doing bonsai for a while that work can be hit or miss. Those initial mistakes grow and get worse as the tree grows. Of course this is a sliding scale of knowledge. Some people are better some not so great. Some learn, some just keep making the same mistakes for three decades)

Bottom line is that I’m arguing that people get the best stock trees they can afford. I didn’t say they should give up on using other sources (which can teach what NOT to do as well as what to do). I’ve done the above for years. As I’ve said the more advanced (and expensive) trees are mostly what remains in my backyard.

Seek out good material. Don’t think that because someone else spent time with it that isn’t worthy (also a sliding scale. I’ve bought raw collected stock and developed trees over the years). I stopped using nursery trees because it takes a decade to work into rough shape. I don’t have the room or the time. Also the money. For all the nursery stock I bought and then sold off (mostly for less than I paid for it) I could have gotten several great trees or developed raw stock of greater quality.

 

[Shogun610]

I agree w most of these points .. my whole speil is if you’re gonna afford to get the material whether collected or from another collection .. that I do the work or slee it’s not my work .. prints grown by someone as a specimen example of its kind for high quality Bonsai I’m going to do the work myself and carry on as the next caretaker and do it myself

 

[MalsRFun in TN]

Just checked up on this. Well apparently he sold several trees that he and his dad had created or worked on so I’ll take back that thing about doubting he sell his dad’s tree… he probably did.

I could be mistaken, but I believe Tom had this tree at our club show October 2024.

 

[MMJNICE]

I totally agree. There is no way I could make a tree in the amount of time I have here on this planet like some of the things that I have bought over the years and continued and bettered.

You are not buying a tree, you are buying time. What you do with it is your contribution.

(Well you ARE buying a tree, but you know what I mean)

I wouldn't say it was a bad tree but let me just say it looks like it was born in 2000 or younger, not that age really matters that much.I also would totally whole heartedly believed if you told me it was created from grafted nursery stock that was ground Layered 5 years ago or bought from brussels nursery two years ago sooooo yea... Its nice to know important people i guess...hold up is that the daddy's tree? Yup.. he's a pretty good bonsai artist in his own right far as hobbyist i would say. I actually bought a tree from daddy a couple of years back nice little windswept privet clump.

 

[MMJNICE]

Just checked up on this. Well apparently he sold several trees that he and his dad had created or worked on so I’ll take back that thing about doubting he sell his dad’s tree… he probably did.

Yup I bought one from his dad's trees that son sold me so totally probably happened. He's a pretty good bonsai artist in my opinion. I can see a lot of is son's work in his trees or maybe that's the opposite, maybe his son's trees have a lot of dad's influences.