Shut the whole damn country down!

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You go to war with the army you have. Or, I do, and men of action do. Sometimes we are wrong, but guys like you, -old-stick-in-the-mud foggies can never get ahead of the curve. You're perfectly happy to say that anecdotal evidence doesn't measure up to your standard while people are going on respirators, many of which never return. Hydroxychloroquine moderates the immune system response that destroys the lungs, and has no major problems if not taken for more than two weeks. It is being manufactured all over the world in response to this need, so Lupus and Rheumatoid Arthritis users need not fear. You, and your ilk are the kinds of deep state bureaucrats destroying America because you get hung up on pro forma proceedure, "because it says so here...". You will never win the wars.
God, you're a coolaid swilling moron... HOW THE FUCK DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE FUCK IT MODERATES---are you a fucking epidemiologist? Oh, I know, you heard it from another person that has no actual idea how it works, or if it works---the White House. The leader has a hunch that it works...He had a hunch this whole pandemic would "disappear" too. How'd that work out?
 
While I'm at it, your types like to think that the world can only progress when and if your intellect leads the way with new technology. The classic, "Not invented here; not acceptable". The hydroxychloroquine link is, like many other giant steps, serendipity. It began with Chinese doctors noticing that Lupus patients never tested positive for Wuhan Virus. That led a French doctor to run a test with 40 patients, 39 of which recovered and one other disposition, but none of them died, an astounding outcome at that time. At the time, that was a very good sign and others all across the world took the ball and ran with it. I might remind you that as of today, no major problems with hydroxychloroquine have been reported. Any port in storm.
 
While I'm at it, your types like to think that the world can only progress when and if your intellect leads the way with new technology. The classic, "Not invented here; not acceptable". The hydroxychloroquine link is, like many other giant steps, serendipity. It began with Chinese doctors noticing that Lupus patients never tested positive for Wuhan Virus. That led a French doctor to run a test with 40 patients, 39 of which recovered and one other disposition, but none of them died, an astounding outcome at that time. At the time, that was a very good sign and others all across the world took the ball and ran with it. I might remind you that as of today, no major problems with hydroxychloroquine have been reported. Any port in storm.

"My types" have experience watching the scientific method lead to real advances faster and more accurately than wild ass guessing. And if I had to go with the "army we have", I'd put way more faith in a drug designed as an anti-viral, like remdesivir. It is know to work against viruses. It's mechanism of action is understood. That same mechanism should, in theory, work against COVID-19. None of that can be said for the anti-parasitic drug hydroxychloroquine. Sure, it could be a happy accident. Lots of scientific advances have benefited from accidents. But the odds are lower.
 
While I'm at it, your types like to think that the world can only progress when and if your intellect leads the way with new technology. The classic, "Not invented here; not acceptable". The hydroxychloroquine link is, like many other giant steps, serendipity. It began with Chinese doctors noticing that Lupus patients never tested positive for Wuhan Virus. That led a French doctor to run a test with 40 patients, 39 of which recovered and one other disposition, but none of them died, an astounding outcome at that time. At the time, that was a very good sign and others all across the world took the ball and ran with it. I might remind you that as of today, no major problems with hydroxychloroquine have been reported. Any port in storm.
Ever hear of Thalidomide? If not, refresher--prescribed as miracle drug to cure pregnancy nausea after it was discovered as a sedative. Result, given to hundreds of thousands of pregnant women, who babies had major MAJOR birth defects...There is no miracle pill that's going to save us from this shit. BTW, this medication is being pushed at the White House by the same folks who advised the President that Coronavirus wasn't going to be a big deal. Same slow dimwitted magical thinking... Why'd they shut Fauci up on Friday when he was asked about the drug...Wise the fuck up.
 
The point of a president is to assume full responsibility in times of crisis. Sure, delegate, listen to advisors etc, but the buck stops at the very top. There is no context necessary. To say you take no responsibility for anything or any mater when it is a matter of national importance is just cowardly, pure and simple. The man is a coward. He is supposed to lead and if anything will be hindering in the fight.
 
"My types" have experience watching the scientific method lead to real advances faster and more accurately than wild ass guessing. And if I had to go with the "army we have", I'd put way more faith in a drug designed as an anti-viral, like remdesivir. It is know to work against viruses. It's mechanism of action is understood. That same mechanism should, in theory, work against COVID-19. None of that can be said for the anti-parasitic drug hydroxychloroquine. Sure, it could be a happy accident. Lots of scientific advances have benefited from accidents. But the odds are lower.
So you didn't respond to the only things that are important: Did it work or not? Did it work without unintended consequences, or not? Has it been in use since 1945 with well-known drug interactions and side effects or not? Can it be manufactered all over the world immediately, or not? Have any existing patients using it been short-changed, or not? You, and your ilk are problem. You address everything except the issues that actually count in an emergency.
 
The point of a president is to assume full responsibility in times of crisis. Sure, delegate, listen to advisors etc, but the buck stops at the very top. There is no context necessary. To say you take no responsibility for anything or any mater when it is a matter of national importance is just cowardly, pure and simple. The man is a coward. He is supposed to lead and if anything will be hindering in the fight.
You are factually wrong. He declared closed boarders, and national emergency weeks before any other leader.
 
So you didn't respond to the only things that are important: Did it work or not? Did it work without unintended consequences, or not? Has it been in use since 1945 with well-known drug interactions and side effects or not? Can it be manufactered all over the world immediately, or not? Have any existing patients using it been short-changed, or not? You, and your ilk are problem. You address everything except the issues that actually count in an emergency.

We don't know if it worked because controlled trials have not been completed. Every drug has side effects, and those can be serious for some part of the population. We have a pretty good idea about the side effects of hydroxychloroquine with otherwise healthy people. Yes, it can be manufactured in many places, and is now. But the market for it has been much smaller than the expected need for a COVID-19 treatment. Increased manufacturing capacity will be an issue that must be dealt with. I don't know if any existing chloroquine users have been unable to get it, but if you suddenly add millions of potential patients to the user roles, I guarantee some will be left without.

There, did I answer all of your points? "My ilk" will be the people saving your ass with an effective and proven treatment, and ultimately an effective vaccine.
 
Here is an interesting story about nitric oxide and its potential benefits in treating COVID-19.

I've actually done some research back in the day on nitric oxide effects on lung vascular permeability. I know this is too wonky, but much of the problem with COVID in lungs is that the immune response makes capillaries in the lungs leaky to fluids. Lungs fill with fluid and people can't breath. Nitric oxide can reduce that "leakiness". I think this is a brilliant attempt.....well worth researching.
 
If you still believe this isn't a problem, this just posted by Ken Cucinelli,, acting secretary of the Department of Homeland Security



I posted this a day or two ago (not the graph but that the daily rate for COVID deaths was now 3rd).
None of them acknowledge it because you know, it must be fake news and fake science because the daily rate is almost 3x that of flu
 
I've actually done some research back in the day on nitric oxide effects on lung vascular permeability. I know this is too wonky, but much of the problem with COVID in lungs is that the immune response makes capillaries in the lungs leaky to fluids. Lungs fill with fluid and people can't breath. Nitric oxide can reduce that "leakiness". I think this is a brilliant attempt.....well worth researching.
Then it should be used earlier in the progression of symptoms.
 
Show me a double blind controlled study demonstrating the effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine. Your information adds nothing. The studies for this drug and others are being run now and we'll have data that we can count on relatively soon. But hydroxychloroquine is one of several - chloroquine, remdesivir, lopinovir, ritonavir, deferoxamine, losartan, high dose vitamin C, ..... A quick search shows 338 clinical trials registered with the FDA (https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results?cond=COVID&term=&cntry=&state=&city=&dist=). Which ones are most effective? Once chosen we need to quickly increase production, tying up any drug manufacturing capacity that can be applied and effectively blocking other potential drugs for the time being. Rather than wait for real data, you'd prefer guessing and taking all the hydroxychloroquine away from patients needing if for things other than COVID-19, still not have enough to treat the need for COVID-19, and redirect manufacturing capacity toward a "maybe"?

There is not always time for double blind trials. They will come later............but if you where on your death bed with Covid 19 what would you ask for this or an ice cream?


Presented by: James M. Todaro, MD and Gregory J. Rigano, Esq.

In consultation with Stanford University School of Medicine, UAB School of Medicine and National Academy of Sciences researchers.

SPANISH: https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vR1adodKPhWalV9djnerI2x_v1LGgGyhZZxpl0O5r-ZNyDdagqFq1rTCxXBqaeicfxgvypDOqKCZVyV/pub

Translation by:
Celia Martínez-Aceves (Yale B.S. Candidate 2021), Martín Martínez (MIT B.S. 2017)

Summary

Recent guidelines from South Korea and China report that chloroquine is an effective antiviral therapeutic treatment against Coronavirus Disease 2019. Use of chloroquine (tablets) is showing favorable outcomes in humans infected with Coronavirus including faster time to recovery and shorter hospital stay. US CDC research shows that chloroquine also has strong potential as a prophylactic (preventative) measure against coronavirus in the lab, while we wait for a vaccine to be developed. Chloroquine is an inexpensive, globally available drug that has been in widespread human use since 1945 against malaria, autoimmune and various other conditions.

CDC research also shows that “chloroquine can affect virus infection in many ways, and the antiviral effect depends in part on the extent to which the virus utilizes endosomes for entry. Chloroquine has been widely used to treat human diseases, such as malaria, amoebiosis, HIV, and autoimmune diseases, without significant detrimental side effects

The treatment guidelines of both South Korea and China against COVID-19 are generally consistent, outlining chloroquine as an effective treatment.
Specifically, according to the Korea Biomedical Review, in February 2020 in South Korea, the COVID-19 Central Clinical Task Force, composed of physicians and experts treating patients agreed upon treatment principles for patients with COVID-19.[4] In China, the General Office of the National Health Commission, General Office of the State Administration of Traditional Chinese Medicine as well as a Multi-Center Collaborative Group of Guangdong Provincial Department of Science and Technology and Guangdong Provincial Health Comp and the China National Center for Biotechnology Development have established effective treatment measures based on human studies.[5]

“Data from the drug’s [chloroquine] studies showed ‘certain curative effect’ with ‘fairly good efficacy’ … patients treated with chloroquine demonstrated a better drop in fever, improvement of lung CT images, and required a shorter time to recover compared to parallel groups.

The study shows that chloroquine is effective in preventing SARS-CoV infection in cell culture if the drug is added to the cells 24 h prior to infection.

The UK has banned the export of Chloroquine[13]

As of February 26, 2020, the UK government has added chloroquine to the list of medicines that cannot be parallel exported from the UK. Chloroquine was never on this list before. This likely happened because of the growing body of evidence of chloroquine’s effectiveness against coronavirus.



Conclusion

Chloroquine can both both prevent and treat malaria. Chloroquine can prevent and treat coronavirus in primate cells (Figure 1 and Figure 2). According to South Korean and China human treatment guidelines, chloroquine is effective in treating COVID-19. Given chloroquine’s human safety profile and existence, it can be implemented today in the U.S., Europe and the rest of the world. Medical doctors may be reluctant to prescribe chloroquine to treat COVID-19 since it is not FDA approved for this use. The United States of America and other countries should immediately authorize and indemnify medical doctors for prescribing chloroquine to treat COVID-19. We must explore whether chloroquine can safely serve as a preventative measure prior to infection of COVID-19 to stop further spread of this highly contagious virus.


Then there’s this second study:

Breakthrough: Chloroquine phosphate has shown apparent efficacy in treatment of COVID-19 associated pneumonia in clinical studiesJianjun Gao, Zhenxue Tian, Xu Yang

Abstract

The coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) virus is spreading rapidly, and scientists are endeavoring to discover drugs for its efficacious treatment in China. Chloroquine phosphate, an old drug for treatment of malaria, is shown to have apparent efficacy and acceptable safety against COVID-19 associated pneumonia in multicenter clinical trials conducted in China. The drug is recommended to be included in the next version of the Guidelines for the Prevention, Diagnosis, and Treatment of Pneumonia Caused by COVID-19 issued by the National Health Commission of the People’s Republic of China for treatment of COVID-19 infection in larger populations in the future.


There are also French and Belgian trials showing the same kind of successes.
 
You forgot the third study which revealed that Trump has a stake in the company that produces chloroquine...

But no, if it truly does work somehow then great.
 
You forgot the third study which revealed that Trump has a stake in the company that produces chloroquine...

But no, if it truly does work somehow then great.
Cite the study, or shut up.
 
I posted this a day or two ago (not the graph but that the daily rate for COVID deaths was now 3rd).
None of them acknowledge it because you know, it must be fake news and fake science because the daily rate is almost 3x that of flu
Cucinelli was appointed by the President. He tweeted it out...Came straight from him, not the "fake" news. Can't imagine the mental gymnastics one has to do to think it's not real :rolleyes:
 
Cite the study, or shut up.
There‘s clearly no study which shows he has a stake, it was a play on Michael’s post. Type in ‘Trump’ and ’Sanofi’ (the french company that makes it). Or don’t. He’s already make your choice for you.
 
Listen to Fauci. I guarantee you he's looking at ALL the data from around the world. When he says it works, then it works.

"There is not always time for double blind trials. They will come later............but if you where on your death bed with Covid 19 what would you ask for this or an ice cream?"

This is panic. This is not helpful. Every patient will be treated to the best ability of their hospital and doctor. You asking for a specific treatment is not doing you any good. Ask to join one of the clinical trials instead.

One of the most insane things about the drug industry in recent years is advertising direct to consumers for prescription drugs. Your average consumer does not have the data, nor the ability to interpret the data, on new drugs. Yet people go in and ask for a specific treatment, not really knowing if it's appropriate for them. All this advertising does it put more pressure on docs to prescribe something that might not be in your best interests. Oh, and it also drives up the price of the drug.
 
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