Shut the whole damn country down!

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chansen said:
If socialism is, then why does it need the profit and efficiency from capitalism to have money to spend?

Neither system by themselves generate optimal outcomes. Government intervention is needed at times, unfortunately most of our politicians are lawyers by trade and yet they're tasked with making economic decisions and they don't understand when that intervention should and should not happen. Government intervention is needed with there are unmitigated negative externalities from economic activities. Air pollution is an easy example. It's easier to have higher profit with fewer mitigations on tailpipes and other sources of emission. Yet air pollution is bad for our health and increases health care costs. In an optimized model, those costs would be borne by those that create them. Since the economy by itself doesn't place those costs on the source of them, the government has to intervene to fix that gap. But there are many cases where the government fails to either remove regulations that are no longer needed, or quite frankly just totally miss the mark (really Ms. Pelosi... $25 million for the Kennedy Center? What negative externality is that fixing? The answer - none).
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Youre upset about finding arts? 25 mil is a drop in the bucked compared to 2.2 trillion. I dont disagree the government should step in to balance health, safety, power and fairness in a society. However the unfettered capitalism the US currently has has led to us falling behind societies with strong social safety nets, education and worker protections. The jingoism that infects american capitalism is preventing us as a society from taking a hard look at what works and what is broken both economically and ethically. The notion that our economic system -our country- is the greatest, and we shouldnt ever overhaul it plays into the hands and machinations of the powerful. The ones that want to keep us poor, uneducated, and divided. We can and should do better.
 
Wires_Guy_wires said:
As for the possibility of covid escaping from a testing lab,
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As for the possibility of unknown viruses and bacteriae escaping from the melting permafrost,...

And about the release of methane and various greenhouse gases, well,...

Let's make pollution great again !
 
PaleFire said:
Youre upset about finding arts? 25 mil is a drop in the bucked compared to 2.2 trillion. I dont disagree the government should step in to balance health, safety, power and fairness in a society. However the unfettered capitalism the US currently has has led to us falling behind societies with strong social safety nets, education and worker protections.
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I’m annoyed that an emergency funding bill that should have been laser focused on current economic and health catastrophes had $25 million stuffed into it just so Nancy Pelosi could throw money at a pet project.

At a time where basic needs aren’t going to be met by millions of Americans, $25 million was spent on The Kennedy Center. Who then proceeded to furlough employees. While it may be a drop in the bucket compared to the total it was still wasteful and focused on nothing but one person’s pet project.

The government has no need to balance “fairness”. I’m not even sure what that means. Plenty of things in life are “unfair” depending on your perspective of what “fair” is. People should have equal opportunity, but there’s no place for the government to create equal outcomes.
 
BrianBay9 said:
We're not talking about malaria. And just because it's used off label doesn't mean it's proven effective. Docs still give antibiotics for viral infections just so they can say they're doing something.
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I just told you some facts and you come back with meaningless bullshit.
 
AlainK said:
As for the possibility of unknown viruses and bacteriae escaping from the melting permafrost,...

And about the release of methane and various greenhouse gases, well,...

Let's make pollution great again !
Click to expand...
Speechless.
 
Maloghurst said:
Just a few of Trumps lies and ignorance regarding Coronavirus. Brainwashed Trump supporters think he handles this perfectly.
1/22 Are concerned about a possible pandemic?

“No not at all! It’s one person coming in from China, we have it under control. It’s gonna be just fine. “



1/24 “It will work out well, it will all work out well”



1/28 “Johnson&Johnson is creating a vaccine.”



1/31 limits foreigners from coming back from China, but did not test or limit or quarantine Americans coming back from China. Couldn’t test because he refused the FDA to certify test kits from the World health organization.



2/2 “well we pretty much shut it down coming in from China”



2/10 “well looks like April when it gets a little warmer It just miraculously goes away”



2/19 “ I think the numbers will get progressively better as it just goes away”



2/23 “we have the Coronavirus very much under control in our country. We had 12 people with the disease at one point now they’ve gotten very much better. Many have fully recovered”



2/25” the media is panicking markets by reporting on Coronavirus”



2/28 “ the democratic policy of open borders is what is responsible for Coronavirus. The numbers on this virus are going down not up, very substantially down not up. One day it’s like a miracle, it just disappears”



2/29 “ we will have a vaccine very quickly, my administration has taken the most aggressive action in modern history to confront the spread of this disease”



3/2 “hey I just learned the flu kills 20-30 thousand a year. I didn’t know that.”



3/4 “our fatality rate is much lower then the world health organization’s.”



3/7”I’m not concerned at all, we have done a great job”
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You forgot the “I take no responsibility” quote.
So Presidential.
 
chansen said:
I’m annoyed that an emergency funding bill that should have been laser focused on current economic and health catastrophes had $25 million stuffed into it just so Nancy Pelosi could throw money at a pet project.

At a time where basic needs aren’t going to be met by millions of Americans, $25 million was spent on The Kennedy Center. Who then proceeded to furlough employees. While it may be a drop in the bucket compared to the total it was still wasteful and focused on nothing but one person’s pet project.

The government has no need to balance “fairness”. I’m not even sure what that means. Plenty of things in life are “unfair” depending on your perspective of what “fair” is. People should have equal opportunity, but there’s no place for the government to create equal outcomes.
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Sure but you cannot throw the baby out with the bathwater. Im sure it was something to make sure a yay vote was cast. I think your grief is with people demanding goodies on every legislation to just get it to pass. I dont disagree with you taking issue there; they should just govern and do whats in the best interest of their constituencies. However, you shouldnt complain about a singular or cherry-picked instance when its a structural problem you want to complain about.

The gov. Should strive towards providing equal opportunity and equal justice that is applied fairly and equitably across society. Now, no system a gov would institute to achieve the above would be perfect or even close to perfect, but just because something cannot be made perfect does not mean that we shouldn't strive to make it better.
 
AlainK said:
As for the possibility of unknown viruses and bacteriae escaping from the melting permafrost,...

And about the release of methane and various greenhouse gases, well,...

Let's make pollution great again !
Click to expand...
Also a very real threat. But less of a threat compared to what we're going to find in the sewers and hospitals the coming months.
Humans have survived the pre-permafrost era due to them being able to combat those frozen microbes.

One perk of the permafrost being less permanent nowadays, is that there's more and more novel mammoth DNA pooring in. Maybe we should be worried about that.. If we live through all of this, we might get trampled by a herd of prehistoric beasts.

As for the methane.. I'm part of a project to investigate how to get cattle and pigs to stop producing it so much. I know that for pigs, the results are promising. Should take just a decade or so.
 
MichaelS said:
Being prudent and mitigating societal breakdown is conservative not socialistic.
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So you mean being conservative in a socialist manner or socialist in a conservative manner? I think too many people follow a label more than an ethos.
 
rich815 said:
You forgot the “I take no responsibility” quote.
So Presidential.
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Once again, you left wing screwballs parse a sentence without explanation. Maybe you're all too stupid to read a whole sentence and keep it in context of the topic being discussed. Maybe I can help.

He said, "I take no responsibility at all, for the slow rate of coronavirus testing in the United States." The structure of the USA at the time, and for the last 100+ years, grants absolute, sole authority to the CDC in conjunction with the FDA to approve, authorize, and certify any medical tests. PERIOD. Private labs that research, invent, create, discover or otherwise want or have tests that accomplish any outcome must be approved and certified by the absolute, sole authorities to do any testing. The President has absolutely no legal authority to say one word about it, one way or the other. The courts have deferred to agencies that the Congress has granted, via legislation , all rule making and enforcing responsibility. Only Congress may pass new legislation to change that. This concept has been tested all the up to the Supreme Court which has deferred authority to these agencies. The EPA designating rain puddles as bodies of water under regulation; the Education Dept. withholding funds from state school systems that counts ketchup as vegetable serving; EPA forcing gasoline companies to formulate 7 kinds of summer gas' for different regions; Blah. blah. blah. Some good, some bad. This is settled law. He takes no responsibility because it was this way when he took office. He changed that, temporarily, with his declaration of this emergency when it became obvious, to everyone in the world, that the agencies had no internal mechanism to shit or get off the pot.

Now you lying bastards using this quote in an otherwise context: You are what you hate.
 
PaleFire said:
Sure but you cannot throw the baby out with the bathwater. Im sure it was something to make sure a yay vote was cast. I think your grief is with people demanding goodies on every legislation to just get it to pass. I dont disagree with you taking issue there; they should just govern and do whats in the best interest of their constituencies. However, you shouldnt complain about a singular or cherry-picked instance when its a structural problem you want to complain about.

The gov. Should strive towards providing equal opportunity and equal justice that is applied fairly and equitably across society. Now, no system a gov would institute to achieve the above would be perfect or even close to perfect, but just because something cannot be made perfect does not mean that we shouldn't strive to make it better.
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I’m not upset with the legislation on a whole, no. I get annoyed when any politician stuffs garbage in a bill just because their vote is needed and they can get it.

I believe the systematic problem is simply career legislators. They, like anyone else, are simply trying to keep their jobs. So they have to do something to show they’ve earned another term. For them “doing things” means passing legislation whether it’s needed or not. Ergo, garbage legislation more often than not. Term limits for legislators.
 
MichaelS said:
I just told you some facts and you come back with meaningless bullshit.
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Show me a double blind controlled study demonstrating the effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine. Your information adds nothing. The studies for this drug and others are being run now and we'll have data that we can count on relatively soon. But hydroxychloroquine is one of several - chloroquine, remdesivir, lopinovir, ritonavir, deferoxamine, losartan, high dose vitamin C, ..... A quick search shows 338 clinical trials registered with the FDA (https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results?cond=COVID&term=&cntry=&state=&city=&dist=). Which ones are most effective? Once chosen we need to quickly increase production, tying up any drug manufacturing capacity that can be applied and effectively blocking other potential drugs for the time being. Rather than wait for real data, you'd prefer guessing and taking all the hydroxychloroquine away from patients needing if for things other than COVID-19, still not have enough to treat the need for COVID-19, and redirect manufacturing capacity toward a "maybe"?
 
I should make one thing clear. I would love it if hydroxychloroquine or any other therapy were found to be effective. An effective therapy will be coming soon! I'll even be happy to take the "I told you so's" if it turns out to be hydroxychloroquine. But we need to take our best shot early, not guess. Just listen to Fauci. He's pretty much the only professional on that podium.
 
BrianBay9 said:
I should make one thing clear. I would love it if hydroxychloroquine or any other therapy were found to be effective. An effective therapy will be coming soon! I'll even be happy to take the "I told you so's" if it turns out to be hydroxychloroquine. But we need to take our best shot early, not guess. Just listen to Fauci. He's pretty much the only professional on that podium.
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You go to war with the army you have. Or, I do, and men of action do. Sometimes we are wrong, but guys like you, -old-stick-in-the-mud foggies can never get ahead of the curve. You're perfectly happy to say that anecdotal evidence doesn't measure up to your standard while people are going on respirators, many of which never return. Hydroxychloroquine moderates the immune system response that destroys the lungs, and has no major problems if not taken for more than two weeks. It is being manufactured all over the world in response to this need, so Lupus and Rheumatoid Arthritis users need not fear. You, and your ilk are the kinds of deep state bureaucrats destroying America because you get hung up on pro forma proceedure, "because it says so here...". You will never win the wars.
 
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