Shut the whole damn country down!

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Maloghurst said:
Correct and what is the mortality rate for people with underlying health conditions? 20% roughly by my calculations.
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Good question, I dunno. I just quickly looked at global infections and global deaths. Guessing some places are under-reporting (some intentional, others just lack the capability), which would bring it higher. Guessing we don't know all the asymptomatic cases, bringing it lower. I recently read an article on pub-med suggesting the false positive rate of asymptomatic or slightly symptomatic people may be really high, but that's not confirmed at this point. Impossible to know the magnitude of all of those.

I'd bet the mortality rate is even higher for people with underlying health problems. In fact, I'd bet age isn't really the issue, other than the older you get the more likely you are to have those underlying health problems. If you have health problems and the virus nukes your ability to produce blood-pressure controlling enzymes, it's easy to see why it's game over.
 
Forsoothe! said:
Extrapolating anything with a range between postulated numbers as divergent as .01% and 5% is silly on its face. How many actual deaths in China, a quadrillion? How many bodies can even the Red Army hide? Please name the person who says this is not as bad as the flu or any other epidemic, and cite the post #.
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Uhhh... I quoted it in my reply (#68 was the post I quoted)? Sure, there wasn't a direct statement that COVID isn't as bad as the flu, but reading comprehension skills indicate that was the intent. The post I quoted directly referenced US flu deaths over the past few years, suggesting that current COVID deaths are lower than seasonal flu (which they currently are) and therefore COVID is less bad than the annual flu. I could be totally wrong, and the intent could have been to indicate that annual flu deaths in the US are actually lower than what COVID would produce with the same number infected. But if that was the intent it was beyond my comprehension and that of others, based on the responses that followed referenced post.

Are you suggesting China OVER-reported their deaths? Why would they do that? To scare us into over-reacting and creating fear and economic war? China is smart enough to know they need US consumers for their economy to thrive. So then are Spain, Italy and New York also artificially inflating death numbers, because they too have ill will toward the rest of the US? If anything, I'd assume China under-reported deaths, especially when the world started being unhappy with their initial cover-up of the virus, and how that directly lead to slower responses than there could have otherwise been.
 
Forsoothe! said:
Trump needs to take control
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He can't.
It's too late for him.
It's the governors that run the show.
He could say tomorrow it's time to go back to work and they will just tell him to be quiet.
He handed the responsibility over to them because in his own words he said "I'm not responsible"
"The governors can take care of their own states."
Now they have the say when to turn things back on.
Trump is toast and he knows it.
Real republicans are turning their backs on him for his lackluster and wildly changing response to the virus.
He's cost them millions.
His only supporters are his rabid panzees.
And that group is shrinking daily.
Because they are older men.
And guess who the coronavirus takes out first?
 
Forsoothe! said:
Please name the person who says this is not as bad as the flu
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How does the name Rush Lumplung grab you for one.
He's telling the trumpanzees it's no worse than the flu.
Then there's the cheeto queen dirtbag himself.
"It's no worse than the flu"
If you need some more I have them.
Namely "newscasters" on Fix news propaganda for trumpy.
 
chansen said:
I recently read an article on pub-med suggesting the false positive rate of asymptomatic or slightly symptomatic people may be really high, but that's not confirmed at this point. Impossible to know the magnitude of all of those.

I'd bet the mortality rate is even higher for people with underlying health problems.
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In Germany they are starting widespread blood tests to see how many people have anibodies for the virus in an attempt to figure that one out. Here guesses also vary: 40-80% hidden cases is what I hear.

Seems like heart and lung issues are the main indicator, which is linked to age by having weaker systems overall.

But I guess the survivors will over the next decade be updated on what the real causes of death have been and how many people were infected without knowing it.
 
I predict that the people contracting pneumonia from covid will be put on antibiotics. In the developing world, in southern Europe and the US this means that we will see a surge of antibiotic resistance as a result. Because people are people and they are generally bad at killing things entirely.
Covid is just the show opener. I expect the next big thing to be a living organism, bacterial, fungal or in between like mycoplasma, but it's going to be bigger and harder to beat.
Brazil and Poland are the only countries with a solid history of using phages. I hope they're preparing.

As for the possibility of covid escaping from a testing lab, in the sense that it was of natural origin and grown in a petri to study it.. Well, I once worked in a production lab where at least once a week some vials snapped. Sometimes the entire 3000L installation. The cleaning crew mopped it up and put the mop back in the cleaning cabinet. That was herpes, no big deal. But they're working with HIV in the next room, and ebola in the one next to that. It can happen here too. It had happened. Just not at this scale.
Human errors. They happen. I've seen Chinese trained lab techs working, some of them are the absolute best, some are the absolute worst.
I'm not making any claims other than that it's plausible that it 'escaped' a lab by hitching a human ride.
 
CDC guidelines allow guessing without a test.
"it is acceptable to report COVID–19 on a death certificate as “probable” or “presumed.”
 
2017-2018 flu season in the US:
44 million suspected cases
20 million visited a doctor
800,000 hospitalized
60,000 dead

4.4 million suspected coronavirus cases
2 million coronavirus doctors visits
80,000 coronavirus hospitalizations
6,000 coronavirus deaths

What were the media, government, and public’s reactions to that flu season? Do you even remember it? Why wasn’t it newsworthy?
 
A. Gorilla said:
2017-2018 flu season in the US:
44 million suspected cases
20 million visited a doctor
800,000 hospitalized
60,000 dead

4.4 million suspected coronavirus cases
2 million coronavirus doctors visits
80,000 coronavirus hospitalizations
6,000 coronavirus deaths

What were the media, government, and public’s reactions to that flu season? Do you even remember it? Why wasn’t it newsworthy?
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Umm... I already told you why. To reiterate, the primary reason COVID is worse than the flu is mortality rates are dramatically different. If we let COVID get as wide spread as the annual flu millions will die.

You asked for reasons why COVID is worse than the flu, and I provided them. Do you not believe that data? Or do you just not find it convincing?
 
A. Gorilla said:
CDC guidelines allow guessing without a test.
"it is acceptable to report COVID–19 on a death certificate as “probable” or “presumed.”
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So you still think everyone is over reporting... why are they doing that? What’s the motive? What are they trying to achieve? When faced with limited tests, there’s no good reason to use one on an individual that has already died. Look - I have no problem with a good conspiracy theory, but there has to be valid motive and higher probability that motive is sound. So provide those - if you have them. Otherwise I suggest you rethink your thought process.
 
chansen said:
So you still think everyone is over reporting... why are they doing that? What’s the motive? What are they trying to achieve? When faced with limited tests, there’s no good reason to use one on an individual that has already died. Look - I have no problem with a good conspiracy theory, but there has to be valid motive and higher probability that motive is sound. So provide those - if you have them. Otherwise I suggest you rethink your thought process.
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You've got to be kidding. The media will do anything for eyeballs, including lying, cheating, stealing, and any other nefarious motive known to mankind. The sell the weather everyday. It's always reported more spectacular than it turns out to be. Pay attention for a week and you'll see they never, ever just state the facts of the weather. Then extrapolate to more intense news and pay attention to one single item and watch how they sell it, hard, every minute of the day. Eyeballs equals money equals salaries. Anything for a buck.
 
MichaelS said:
There is nothing unproven about the efficacy of cholorquine. That's why Australia has confirmed 20.000 courses ordered for doctors to use at their discretion here.
It has been used for SARS (COVID 19 is SARS 2) in 2003 and for Malaria for decades.
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We're not talking about malaria. And just because it's used off label doesn't mean it's proven effective. Docs still give antibiotics for viral infections just so they can say they're doing something.
 
I love how nowadays everything gets blamed on a conspiracy theory, especially on the right.

Always a conspiracy, or a leftist plot. Or the media, then watch fox news which their highest rated shows arent actually news.

The best part about conspiracy theories, is they disprove themselves when looked at objectively.
 
Forsoothe! said:
You've got to be kidding. The media will do anything for eyeballs, including lying, cheating, stealing, and any other nefarious motive known to mankind. The sell the weather everyday. It's always reported more spectacular than it turns out to be. Pay attention for a week and you'll see they never, ever just state the facts of the weather. Then extrapolate to more intense news and pay attention to one single item and watch how they sell it, hard, every minute of the day. Eyeballs equals money equals salaries. Anything for a buck.
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“The media” aren’t those counting the dead. That’s done by the medical community. Reporting on the weather has nothing to do with counting dead people, nor identifying the cause of death. I agree that the media over do lots of things, but that doesn’t also mean all things reported by the media are equally overdone. Your logic is not sound and your conclusions are not valid.
 
Forsoothe! said:
This is a real good example of stupid. If they are incorrect, to whom are they useful? And, how? The single utility of a predictive model is to predict something accurately.
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Come on now. Models show trends. None are totally accurate. However they are useful if used with no agenda.
 
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