Napa Oil Dry part no. 8822

[TN_Jim]

right...whew...I paraphrased milehigh_7 in a reply to the post paraphrased, in order to expound on it..specifically regarding what properties may make a product a different “beast”
I get all redundant when on the bath salts

 

[sparklemotion]

Okay folks, just got off the phone with the peeps at EP. NAPA 8822 is a "non-calcined" (not fired) product. That makes it a different beast than Optisorb, Axis or many of the others. Now we can argue about what those differences are! You are welcome!

Did you confirm with them that Optisorb is actually calcined?

 

[BrianBay9]

I don't see what one expects to accomplish by firing DE. It's silica. Glass. In the form of tiny, beautiful, ornate skeletons of diatoms. Unless it's fired high enough to melt, firing would do little more than make the details of the diatoms sag.

 

[TN_Jim]

I don't see what one expects to accomplish by firing DE. It's silica. Glass. In the form of tiny, beautiful, ornate skeletons of diatoms. Unless it's fired high enough to melt, firing would do little more than make the details of the diatoms sag.

After reading the post from @milehigh_7 about #8822 not being fired, I found this pretty interesting site (below).
I believe that a fired DE may have a higher cec, however is less likely to hold up over time given it’s new crystaline structure -especially with freeze/thaw cycles.
Furthermore, a fired DE may be better at keeping out insects etc., but has greater potential to harm humans as well. If these things are true, non-fired seems the better product for me (longevity/safe over possible higher cec/critter prevention).

http://www.absorbentproductsltd.com/phone/diatomaceous-earth-calcined-vs-non-calcined.html

 

[M. Frary]

All I know is that I've used 8822 for 5 years now. I am still reusing all of it. I've never seen breakdown. If optisorb holds up as good of better I'll use it for the larger particle size.

 

[Anthony]

@M. Frary ,

Gogeerah,

if you can test this ------- Leca or Hydroponic pebbles - around 8 mm. with
compost or peat moss.
Let me know how it goes.
Only if you have the time - okay.
Anthony

 

[Joe Dupre']

Scientific analysis is interesting, but it won't change my mind. I know it works because it WORKS...........that's what counts. None other than our own Walter Pall uses calcined clay and rough peat......75%-25%. He suggests Turface and pine bark would work also. Many things work. It does not have to be "perfect" unless "perfect" is part of a person's MO. No harm in that either.

 

[Hack Yeah!]

8822 says kiln fired on the bag

 

[moke]

All I know is that I've used 8822 for 5 years now. I am still reusing all of it. I've never seen breakdown. If optisorb holds up as good of better I'll use it for the larger particle size.

Dito!! what Frary said. and my 8822 is seeing extreme freeze thaw cycles -20F - 111F

 

[leatherback]

I know it works because it WORKS.

Good reason. In fact, in plant/soil science, there is a common understanding that growing crops on a soil will give you a better indication of the plant available nutrient levels than chemical analysis.

 

[0soyoung]

@M. Frary ,

Gogeerah,

if you can test this ------- Leca or Hydroponic pebbles - around 8 mm. with
compost or peat moss.
Let me know how it goes.
Only if you have the time - okay.
Anthony

And be sure to flood the pot when you water

 

[Chris Frechette]

Just picked up two bags! I’m excited to try it out. I’ve been using expanded shale and pumice w a lil perlite and pine bark mixed in. I still have a bunch of shale and pumice... should I mix that all up w the DE?

 

[Cable]

This thread is relevant to my interests. Just gotta read all ten pages. lol. I just started learning about soils. Question: what screens do you guys use to sift?

 

[Joe Dupre']

If you want to go cheap and dirty, a window screen will sift out enough of the fines and dust to get you started. I use one of the standard type round 12" diameter (?) sifters with 3 sized screens. I use only the finest screen and the largest screen. If you go with Napa #8822 or Turface or something similar, you won't have many large particles to worry about so the window screen would work fine.

 

[Adamantium]

I just used this guy to sift some Optisorb. Seemed to do a good job. Nice and sturdy, and left only pieces larger than 1/8". Also, it fits perfectly onto a five gallon bucket, so you have something to catch all the fines and dust.

 

[Underdog]

I've stolen the wife's pampered chef spaghetti strainer. Stainless steel too! LOL Bigger than window screen but smaller than 1/8th in.

 

[milehigh_7]

Just picked up two bags! I’m excited to try it out. I’ve been using expanded shale and pumice w a lil perlite and pine bark mixed in. I still have a bunch of shale and pumice... should I mix that all up w the DE?

I'm going to direct you to a few places. I think it's important to know why we pick one component over another. They have different characteristics, one may be what you want, while another might not be. I will post one graphic that I updated to list DE attributes I will also direct you to read the following links:

Introductory Soil Physics 1.2 by @markyscott

A coupla’ three new bonsai soil components by Adam Lavigne
I Feel So Soiled by Adam Lavigne
The much anticipated, long promised, long winded, Ever Lovin’ Bonsai Soil Epic by Adam Lavigne

This one is required reading:
Why the Earth Is Not Like a Pot by Brent Walston

That should help a bit.

 

[0soyoung]

I think it's important to know why we pick one component over another.

Why does one need a 'mix', especially if all the magic comes from one 'component' - why not use nothing but (that one component) and/or what is the necessity for something else too?

Boon's mix is Japan's mix. Purportedly the magic comes from Akadama - why not use nothing more than Akadama?
The Ryan Neil 'revelation' is that DE => Akadama - why not use nothing but DE?
What is the need for a 'mix'?

 

[Joe Dupre']

Besides the main "magic" ingrdient, it's good to have other ingredients, like pine bark for instance, that act as a moisture buffer and maybe store more nutrients. I don't think there is any one ingredient that could cope with the low humidity and the 110 degree temps of Arizona or the monsoon rains of South America or the 9 months of winter in Northern Canada.

 

[Anthony]

@Joe Dupre' ,

I used to suggest the indestructible silica based gravel [ used down here for sand blasting and
mixing with cement to make concrete ].

Then I found out it might not be available all over the US.

I would use composted pine bark, because it is able to fulfill the biological section for
roots and microbes.

BUT I live in the Tropics and that might mess you guys up.

I would not use a clay based compound like Akadama, simply because, clay
down here encourages fat non feeder roots.
Good Day
Anthony

* Plus if you read the old books out of Japan, Akadama was a Tokyo zone
practice, other parts of Japan used volcanic based sand.