Napa Oil Dry part no. 8822

[Adamantium]

I dont bother sifting it, the dust washes thru

Woah, you don’t sift at all? I bought some Optisorb and figured sifting out the dust was a must, but even some of the smaller particles seemed a bit too small. And I’ve heard Napa 8822 is even finer!

That’s really surprising. I was planning to buy a 1/8” softer, but now you have me rethinking it.

 

[sorce]

Woah, you don’t sift at all? I bought some Optisorb and figured sifting out the dust was a must, but even some of the smaller particles seemed a bit too small. And I’ve heard Napa 8822 is even finer!

That’s really surprising. I was planning to buy a 1/8” softer, but now you have me rethinking it.

Truth is....

I guess it's possible that these folks who don't sift get DE with less dust....

However, EP minerals is no closer to them than me....

So I'm still going with...
"They haven't used the settled part of the bag yet, have simply lucked out, or haven't done enough soil autopsies to find out how hydrophobic dusty DE is."

Unsifted DE WILL kill a tree....
Maybe not today, maybe not next year....
But it Will happen!

No amount of flushing can really wash all the dust and fines away.

Sorce

 

[milehigh_7]

Truth is....

I guess it's possible that these folks who don't sift get DE with less dust....

However, EP minerals is no closer to them than me....

So I'm still going with...
"They haven't used the settled part of the bag yet, have simply lucked out, or haven't done enough soil autopsies to find out how hydrophobic dusty DE is."

Unsifted DE WILL kill a tree....
Maybe not today, maybe not next year....
But it Will happen!

No amount of flushing can really wash all the dust and fines away.

Sorce

I agree 100%

 

[TN_Jim]

Siftin’ the night away

 

[TN_Jim]

good fella at lowes gave me 3 bags of lava (partially torn) for a dollar a piece. breaking rocks again.

If you were zone 7, only had pinebark, perlite, lava, and DE, what ratio would you use for a juniper/deciduous if you could only water once a day in August?

 

[milehigh_7]

good fella at lowes gave me 3 bags of lava (partially torn) for a dollar a piece. breaking rocks again.

If you were zone 7, only had pinebark, perlite, lava, and DE, what ratio would you use for a juniper/deciduous if you could only water once a day in August?

I personally think perlite is the devil. It floats up and leaves only heavy stuff at the bottom of your pot. Lots of folks use it but I absolutely hate it. My current mix is 50% DE and 50% (well sifted) cactus mix which is bark and lava.

 

[M. Frary]

I use unsifted 8822 and perlite.
No deaths.

 

[Underdog]

I personally think perlite is the devil.

Me too. It keeps finding it's way into some of my starter trees via the nursery soil and a bag of potting mix I picked up on sale. I often reuse soil and get fooled thinking it's DE until I water it.

The few times I used unsifted, it looked like oatmeal upon repotting. I sift out the fines and use it as intended on my shop floor. LOL Seems good for seedlings too.

 

[James W.]

When I use DE with plenty of organics the fines don't seem to matter much. When used straight or mixed with pumice the dust and fines from unsifted DE forms concrete at the bottom of the pot. I recommend to sift AND WASH.

 

[Wilson]

The only issue I have ever had with perlite, is it breaking down from freezing. Otherwise it is great!

 

[Rose Mary]

I went to the local garden soils place which has many big piles of all kinds of soils, bark mulches of various sizes, lava, pumice etc.
available by the yard, half yard or truckload. They load.
Got a yard of white pumice with nice sized particles which I will sift and separate as I use.
The red lava rock was too large this time around.

When I use DE with plenty of organics the fines don't seem to matter much. When used straight or mixed with pumice the dust and fines from unsifted DE forms concrete at the bottom of the pot. I recommend to sift AND WASH.

I have never had this happen with DE, perhaps our DE are different in this part of the country/

 

[milehigh_7]

I went to the local garden soils place which has many big piles of all kinds of soils, bark mulches of various sizes, lava, pumice etc.
available by the yard, half yard or truckload. They load.
Got a yard of white pumice with nice sized particles which I will sift and separate as I use.
The red lava rock was too large this time around.



I have never had this happen with DE, perhaps our DE are different in this part of the country/

Lucky you to have the resources so close! No all the DE in the US comes from mines in Nevada and Oregon and are owned by EP. Every product available is from them.

 

[sorce]

Lucky you to have the resources so close! No all the DE in the US comes from mines in Nevada and Oregon and are owned by EP. Every product available is from them.

I wonder if that Oregon Mine is where Oregon gets there's from.
Maybe Idaho too, cuz @GailC is a bit different then mine.

Might make sense that Mikes Palleted 8822 comes from Oregon too, via the tree trade...

Whereas I probly get the Nevada 8822.

Hmmmm....

Sorce

 

[GailC]

I wonder if the difference matters at all? I get good results with fine roots, all my plants are doing well in it. I even grow some cactus in it and mix it with potting soil for some grow out pots. Really helps keep the potting soil aerated and from packing down.

I don't get concrete from not washing either. I'll be checking the roots on my apple stump before too long. Its been in the same pot of DE for two years.

 

[milehigh_7]

There are three differences in the product out of the bag. 1) Obviously, size (cause size matters) 2) calcined or not (not will turn to mush), 3) the moisture content when it went into the rotary kiln to be calcined. They fire it hotter if the moisture content was higher to dry it.

 

[sparklemotion]

There are three differences in the product out of the bag. 1) Obviously, size (cause size matters) 2) calcined or not (not will turn to mush), 3) the moisture content when it went into the rotary kiln to be calcined. They fire it hotter if the moisture content was higher to dry it.

On top of that, there are the differences in the way that people are using it:

• Size/depth of container
• Watering method/amount/frequency
• Repotting frequency
• Repotting techniques - how much chopsticking is happening?
• Climate: Freeze/thaw cycles, rain/storms
• Moss/no moss?
• Fertilizer type/strength/application method
• Species

Etc. I absolutely believe that given the same unsifted bag of the same product, some people will get concrete and other people will get roots.

 

[James W.]

To be clear, I have had good results with DE. Even in the pots that had a deposit of cement at the bottom the plants were healthy. I use 10 - 20 bags a year and most I do not bother to sift or wash. Only special trees get special treatment and I have very little worth the bother.

 

[Rose Mary]

On top of that, there are the differences in the way that people are using it:

• Size/depth of container
• Watering method/amount/frequency
• Repotting frequency
• Repotting techniques - how much chopsticking is happening?
• Climate: Freeze/thaw cycles, rain/storms
• Moss/no moss?
• Fertilizer type/strength/application method
• Species

Etc. I absolutely believe that given the same unsifted bag of the same product, some people will get concrete and other people will get roots.

I do not believe that!, as far as given the same product from the same lot! (I almost said absolutely LOL!
Climate conditions ie freeze/thaw is the only thing I have NO experience with as far as 8822.

I have used with:

-all kinds of soil mixes
-All sizes and types of container
-watering in every fashion from spray to immersion
-long instances between repotting, or not
-chop sticks or not
-moss or not
fertilizers lots of methods
lots of species
I have been using it for years, even the odd bag that seems finer than most has never turned to concrete or mush.
Freeze/Thaw conditions and the extreme weather the NE experiences every winter could be very different.

Remember, I live in SW Oregon in a mild to moderate climate. ,
even when things are very wet here have never had concrete or mush from the 8822

 

[milehigh_7]

I'm going to put in a phone call to make sure but I do believe there is one big difference from looking at all the data sheets just now. I do not believe that 8822 is fired (calcined) and the others are.

 

[Rose Mary]

I'm going to put in a phone call to make sure but I do believe there is one big difference from looking at all the data sheets just now. I do not believe that 8822 is fired (calcined) and the others are.

interested to hear what you find