Initial styling Blue Spruce
- Thread starter mwar15
- Start date
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
All Spruce can be fussy. They do not seem to do well if too much is done at one time before it has had time to recover from the last attempt on it's life. What I mean by recovery is not the production of some buds and shoots here and there it is the point where the tree is in need of you dealing with new growth as if a new tree, vigorous growth.
M. Frary
Bonsai Godzilla
I've transplanted them with a mechanized spade.
The ones I cut roots off digging them still don't look good.
Lower and interior branching is gone.
They're alive. It's been like 10 years.
mwar15
Omono
So this tree was one of the first trees I bought. Looking back it wasn't that good of material. I have learned the better material you start with the better the tree will develop into. I have learned a ton since this tree nearly 4 years ago.
I am not a fan of spruce, i can admire them but as far as Bonsai it a species low on my list that I want to work on at this point. I think a lot of things contributed to the death of this tree.
My teacher is old school. He wanted to split the truck to induce movement into that trunk. He still to this day suggests splitting trunks with other trees to help with bending a thick trunk when wanting to induce movement into them. I have two other large Junipers I did this too and both of them died... I either am not doing this technique right, I am not taking care of the trees afterwords properly. I think at this point I won't use this technique at this point. I have come to either accept the movements in the trunks, wire with thick copper wire to get the movement or chop it.
If I saw this tree again I would have saved my $15, I would have chopped it and wired it. Or re-potted it and see how it took that and see if that invigorated it to get it growing good.
thanks for the input, that is what is great about this site!
I am not a fan of spruce, i can admire them but as far as Bonsai it a species low on my list that I want to work on at this point. I think a lot of things contributed to the death of this tree.
My teacher is old school. He wanted to split the truck to induce movement into that trunk. He still to this day suggests splitting trunks with other trees to help with bending a thick trunk when wanting to induce movement into them. I have two other large Junipers I did this too and both of them died... I either am not doing this technique right, I am not taking care of the trees afterwords properly. I think at this point I won't use this technique at this point. I have come to either accept the movements in the trunks, wire with thick copper wire to get the movement or chop it.
If I saw this tree again I would have saved my $15, I would have chopped it and wired it. Or re-potted it and see how it took that and see if that invigorated it to get it growing good.
thanks for the input, that is what is great about this site!
Cosmos
Shohin
You might want to consider changing teacher. I would be very wary of a pro who suggests "trunk splitting" (which seems to be a very marginal technique) at every turn.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
You should have cornered your teacher and asked him how to do that which he so enthusiastically endorses---I would have.
Jason
Chumono
At least you learned a lot from your now deceased material. This happens when you practice bonsai. Whether people admit it or not, everyone that is any good at this has killed at least a few trees. There are lots of very good teachers where you live. Find someone experienced who has material you admire and explanations for their recommendations that make sense.
just.wing.it
Deadwood Head
Every spruce branch I've ever wired, died.
3 of them now...
3 of them now...
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
That's probably because you bent the branch more than once. You cannot bend a Spruce branch here and there as you change your mind you kind of have to know where you want it , go there and leave it for a couple of years. You cannot change your mind and move it later without risk.
Jason
Chumono
I've wired Engelmann branches with no dieback. I think we even moved them around more than once. They only like to be wired in autumn, maybe winter and should be misted and kept moist while you work on them.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
I use Aluminum wire, I know a lot of people use Copper and that might be the problem. I have heard that Cherries do not like Copper so it is possible that this is true with some Spruce.
Jason
Chumono
I use copper without issues.
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
3 branches or trees?
When were they wired?
Pics?
Sure the wiring?
Since you began talking about this...I think about it every time I look at my fully wired, very healthy spruce.
Couple things....
I think the "they dont like to be wired in summer is BS."
Because it comes mostly with this...
"Remove all the needles where you are wiring" BS too.
I don't think they can take needle removal in summer...especially not close old needles.
Could be the tree relies on the 2nd, 3rd year life of those needles to tell itself that branch is worth keeping.
Where removing them may tell the tree not to waste its time...as it won't get 3 years of work from those needles.
Kills the branch, to smartly spend energy in a more worthwhile spot.
Anyway...I also think it's very stupid to remove old needles when wiring anyway.
I just wire right over the needles.
We agree spruce branches are hard to set...
We agree needles bring "traffic" or thickening.
So removing needles from where we want the tree to hold It's shape is stupid...
Plus...if we were going to remove them anyway...it doesn't matter how ugly they are while doing their job of setting the branch, and when they are finished and brown, they can be tweezed out from under the wire.
Plus..."buds will pop where you removed old needles in August..October?" I don't follow that anymore...but even if its true...it doesn't mean we aren't weakening the tree.
It doesnt mean the branch sets faster.
It doesn't mean that's the best way to go.
I think my kinked hose theory is true with spruce.
As winter wiring has always assisted in death.
Late summer/fall wiring, just before they fatten up, has never been fatal.
Sorce
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
Oh...an empty hose can be easily kinked, and flow stopped.
A full hose is harder to kink.
Kinking sapless winter branches...
Cuts off flow.
Wiring when the tree is most actively flowing sap and putting on....
Late summer early fall...
The branches are like firehoses...
Impossible to kink.
In summer they are like garden hoses...which Can be kinked.
A branch...even a fall fire hose branch...
Becomes more kinkable if the end is cut.
Transpiration at the end for water loss is like a closes leaking spigot.
A cut branch is like an open end.
This changes the pressure inside the kinkable channels.
Sorce
A full hose is harder to kink.
Kinking sapless winter branches...
Cuts off flow.
Wiring when the tree is most actively flowing sap and putting on....
Late summer early fall...
The branches are like firehoses...
Impossible to kink.
In summer they are like garden hoses...which Can be kinked.
A branch...even a fall fire hose branch...
Becomes more kinkable if the end is cut.
Transpiration at the end for water loss is like a closes leaking spigot.
A cut branch is like an open end.
This changes the pressure inside the kinkable channels.
Sorce
just.wing.it
Deadwood Head
3 small Depot bird's nests....?
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
They have said BN are no good for bonsai.
I will wire mine in a Couple months.
TBD!
Sorce
Здравствуйте.
Я с интересом прочитал все написанное.
У меня есть опыт разделения ветвей на лиственные и некоторые хвойные деревья в качестве эксперимента.
Вы выполняете классическое ветвление с разветвителем ветви. Его конструкция позволяет работать с минимальным отверстием.
После завершения работы вы помещаете шпатлевку в отверстие. Далее, проводка.
Суть в том, что эта операция не должна приводить к гибели ветви. Он должен расти в новой позиции.
Но на хвойном я не вижу необходимости применять этот метод в целом.
Даже взрослые ветви ели очень гибко. Но вам нужно больше энергии.
Это достигается очень толстой проволокой или одним простым устройством из стального стержня или арматуры и проволоки.
Я с интересом прочитал все написанное.
У меня есть опыт разделения ветвей на лиственные и некоторые хвойные деревья в качестве эксперимента.
Вы выполняете классическое ветвление с разветвителем ветви. Его конструкция позволяет работать с минимальным отверстием.
После завершения работы вы помещаете шпатлевку в отверстие. Далее, проводка.
Суть в том, что эта операция не должна приводить к гибели ветви. Он должен расти в новой позиции.
Но на хвойном я не вижу необходимости применять этот метод в целом.
Даже взрослые ветви ели очень гибко. Но вам нужно больше энергии.
Это достигается очень толстой проволокой или одним простым устройством из стального стержня или арматуры и проволоки.
M. Frary
Bonsai Godzilla
Now that's a mouthful.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
Not trying to be a dick but I don't understand why an individual who obviously understands English would find it necessary to post using Cyrillic text? Yes you are smarter than we are.
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
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