Juniper initial styling feedback and ideas requested

[Applicative]

Ideally going for semi cascade. This is a first styling and let it recover. It looks a bit different in 2D. Looking for help especially with ideas on the right side.

 

[bwaynef]

The reason the right side is bothering you is that you're using branches that are too big to put the movement where it needs to be. Let it recover. Let it backbud. Use THAT growth and reduce the existing branching when you're able to safely replace it.

 

[Applicative]

That makes sense. That's my plan is to use the new growth. Do you have any suggestions on balancing the opposing side of a semi cascade?

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Congrats on the new project! It’s actually a full cascade as it’s fall or tail is below the edge of the pot.

It really helps to have at least one image to project upon the project as an exemplar. Here are two.

Exemplar one

Exemplar two

cheers
DSD sends

 

[Shibui]

I would suggest the problem with the right side is that there's too many branches and they are too strong.
If you consider why a tree would grow a long trunk right out to the left it may help understand why the same tree would be highly unlikely to also have strong branches growing to the right as well.
Cascade and semi cascade shaped trees generally grow on cliffs where there's no space for opposite branches and most of the light comes from one side which is where the strongest branches/trunks grow.
It is hard to work out exactly which way those 2 right side branches are growing (forward or back) in a 2D picture but I'd be inclined to remove the upper one completely and reduce the front one to a very short branch.
Reducing the right side helps to emphasise the main left trunk.
Bonsai is not about symmetry. Asymmetry gives a design a more dynamic look. balance can be space, a heavy trunk, pot, etc. Doesn't always need opposite branches to give balance.

The upper left branch appears to be tangled up with the main cascade branch. I'd like to see some separation there. Space is as important as branches in bonsai.

My virt is a bit crude but may give some idea of what I'm suggesting.

 

[Deleted member 47471]

Perpendicular lines are branches angled down and toward viewer. Scribbly horizontal lines are foliage tips making pads for domed apex (front sides and back of tree).

In this styling, tree becomes like a lamp with the trunk as the pole, while branches and foliage create the surrounding/wrapping lamp shade.

 

[Ininaatigoons]

Development of a strong apex would bring balance. The right side could stay.

 

[Applicative]

View attachment 541919
Perpendicular lines are branches angled down and toward viewer. Scribbly horizontal lines are foliage tips making pads for domed apex (front sides and back of tree).

In this styling, tree becomes like a lamp with the trunk as the pole, while branches and foliage create the surrounding/wrapping lamp shade.

This is actually more interesting of a consideration to me as a windswept, but it shares similar elements to the poster below that a stronger apex would bring the needed element to balance the right. I appreciate you taking the time to mock this up!

 

[Applicative]

I would suggest the problem with the right side is that there's too many branches and they are too strong.
If you consider why a tree would grow a long trunk right out to the left it may help understand why the same tree would be highly unlikely to also have strong branches growing to the right as well.
Cascade and semi cascade shaped trees generally grow on cliffs where there's no space for opposite branches and most of the light comes from one side which is where the strongest branches/trunks grow.
It is hard to work out exactly which way those 2 right side branches are growing (forward or back) in a 2D picture but I'd be inclined to remove the upper one completely and reduce the front one to a very short branch.
Reducing the right side helps to emphasise the main left trunk.
Bonsai is not about symmetry. Asymmetry gives a design a more dynamic look. balance can be space, a heavy trunk, pot, etc. Doesn't always need opposite branches to give balance.

The upper left branch appears to be tangled up with the main cascade branch. I'd like to see some separation there. Space is as important as branches in bonsai.

My virt is a bit crude but may give some idea of what I'm suggesting.
View attachment 541917

Thanks - I think the comment specifically on the nature of semi cascade trees in a natural context provided great guidance on a mental model for how to approach it.

 

[Japonicus]

Depending on how much work was done with this 1st styling (no before pictures or mention of), and timeline for repotting next...
I would keep the right side pushing back foliage to new growth after recovery

Development of a strong apex would bring balance. The right side could stay.

Yes I agree...for now. The top right branch is too heavy and there is new shoots below it
that will make for a good easily styled apex. Again, depending on when repotting is scheduled for.
(keep as much foliage before a repot as possible with the given amount of foliage left)

I like DSD's exemplar #1 for an image to strive for.
Here is one similar enough to the OP's post I felt it would be worth sharing. A formal cascade is not a bad thing if you like it.

This one is slated to be repotted soon, so I did not thin it that much last year + is threw a bunch of adult foliage.
Later this Summer I will bring some definition to the branches. The lower apex needs a lot of work, and I do not work
on both sides of the rim of the pot in one year typically save for minor thinning of both when applicable.

Also I would add that the tilt of the pot to straighten the trunks angle to a more upright position may not be best
as in 1st picture.

 

[River's Edge]

I find it helpful to research pictures of existing trees that display the style I am looking to go towards before I begin styling! This stage usually falls between identifying the strengths, weaknesses and simplifying the structure one has to work with in our own tree.
One exercise that I have found useful is to sketch or trace the trunk movement and the existing or remaining locations that branches come off the tree. Then experiment with what is possible from that framework. Various authors have described this process in Books dedicated to Design aesthetics. one of the most detailed and clearest examples of this is contained in the book " Bonsai Aesthetics" by Francois Jeker page 122 to 134. Title is "The Project"
Contains five steps. 1. prepare tree, 2. Take picture of tree 3. Trace the Nebari, the trunk and the beginnings of branches. 4. Choose the orientation of the trunk and branches. ( planting angle ) 5.Imagine the foliage.
The picture you posted indicates an awareness of this process. The step I wish to highlight is searching for examples of similar tree structures and artist examples as an additional step to fine. tune the design.
For examples position and shape of apex, negative space, branch length and thickness along with pad design and foliage orientation.
Just some thoughts for the thread and readers I have found useful.
here is a picture that I might consider for ideas. Tree is a picture I took of an entry for Taikan Ten 2015 in Kyoto.

 

[Japonicus]

The blue would be a good place to build an upper apex if going for a formal cascade.
Then jin the top down to the new apex eventually, keeping its growth in check in the meantime, to prevent thieving strength
from new apex to be. I rotated the tree back close to planting angle which cropped the remaining lower apex out unintentionally.

The current wire traveling down the cascading branch needs to be removed late Summer and wired with proper copper wire
of size enough to put and hold movement into that main branch. Size # 8 or at the smallest #10 (annealed!).
Then if you're not comfortable with copper wire yet, where I've drawn some green secondary branches, there appear to be
current branches that could be wired with aluminum wire, to put some balance to a branch. Movement such as an S or whatever,
in the trunk should consider existing main branches to throw off in each curve. Once recuperated removal of bar secondary branches will ensue.
Do wait for recovery as often time you can damage branches that fade and die, so having that bar branch as a spare could be beneficial.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

One last thing increasing thought of in our backyard when working with junipers.

Jin everything vs outright pruning off branches and branchlets.

A couple years from now one when the tree design has advanced enough to really meld into a the shape envisioned these jins can be either kept to highlight the complexity of the design, or some can be cut off…

cheers
DSD sends

 

[River's Edge]

Don't forget that one can were branches before jin! Create interesting movement to flow with the trunk line and contorted designs that highlight Juniper. Much easier to do while still green and alive. plenty of time to remove bark and jin after. I know it is a slower process and one often feels like making more progress in one go. I always need to reming myself of this step when working with junipers.

 

[Shibui]

We can still wire and bend jinned branches when freshly debarked. It takes a day or 2 for the wood to dry and harden. I often strip the branch then wire and bend. Saves the hassle of scraping off bark piece by piece after it has dried and set in position.

 

[Deleted member 47471]

This is actually more interesting of a consideration to me as a windswept, but it shares similar elements to the poster below that a stronger apex would bring the needed element to balance the right. I appreciate you taking the time to mock this up!

I love windswept also! Got a birds nest spruce I’ve windswept drastically