Does ANYONE really like or appreciate the bitchiness on this site?

[Bonsai Nut]

As an Internet forum, it is impossible to be all things to all people.

I specifically set up the forum structure to create advanced sub-forums and sub-categories. I think many people use the "new posts" function as a catch-all, and when many new posts are in the beginners forum, they think that the only discussion is on beginner trees. There are actually a lot of advanced topics being discussed... you just need to look for them

Many advanced bonsai enthusiasts and bonsai instructors and bonsai masters have their own sites and blogs. Many don't hang out on the Internet at all (people in California know what I'm talking about - some of the best instructors here have ZERO online presence).

So you have to choose what kind of site you want to be. I wanted there to be advanced discussion, but I also wanted there to be a welcome mat left out for beginners. It is a little chaotic... but it works for me It takes enough time for me to manage the site in its current form. The idea of a moderated advanced site sounds like a lot of work - and it may not attract as much interest as you might think since a lot of people come to forums for the chance to rub elbows with people who actually know what they're doing.

 

[Vin]

As an Internet forum, it is impossible to be all things to all people.

I specifically set up the forum structure to create advanced sub-forums and sub-categories. I think many people use the "new posts" function as a catch-all, and when many new posts are in the beginners forum, they think that the only discussion is on beginner trees. There are actually a lot of advanced topics being discussed... you just need to look for them

Many advanced bonsai enthusiasts and bonsai instructors and bonsai masters have they own sites and blogs. Many don't hang out on the Internet at all (people in California know what I'm talking about - some of the best instructors here have ZERO online presence).

So you have to chose what kind of site you want to be. I wanted there to be advanced discussion, but I also want there to be a welcome mat left out for beginners. It is a little chaotic... but it works for me It takes enough time for me to manage the site in its current form. The idea of a moderated advanced site sounds like a lot of work - and it may not attract as much interest as you might think since a lot of people come to forums for chance to rub elbows with people who actually know what they're doing.

BOOYA! I started writing something like this yesterday but figured you would eventually get around to it. Thanks!

 

[milehigh_7]

exactly...

 

[milehigh_7]

As an Internet forum, it is impossible to be all things to all people.

I specifically set up the forum structure to create advanced sub-forums and sub-categories. I think many people use the "new posts" function as a catch-all, and when many new posts are in the beginners forum, they think that the only discussion is on beginner trees. There are actually a lot of advanced topics being discussed... you just need to look for them

Many advanced bonsai enthusiasts and bonsai instructors and bonsai masters have they own sites and blogs. Many don't hang out on the Internet at all (people in California know what I'm talking about - some of the best instructors here have ZERO online presence).

So you have to chose what kind of site you want to be. I wanted there to be advanced discussion, but I also want there to be a welcome mat left out for beginners. It is a little chaotic... but it works for me It takes enough time for me to manage the site in its current form. The idea of a moderated advanced site sounds like a lot of work - and it may not attract as much interest as you might think since a lot of people come to forums for chance to rub elbows with people who actually know what they're doing.

This is why this place is still in operation and the others are all gone...

 

[M. Frary]

I'm proving myself a liar but I couldn't help it...

@coh @Vance Wood @MichaelS do you recall a thread titled "American Bonsai at the NC Arboretum" by Mr. Arthur Joura on IBC? Do you recall the discussion between Mr. Joura and Mr. @Walter Pall ? The one which Mrs. Fiona had divided into two separate threads...
That's the idea behind....

That thread blew.
Boring as hell and they sure didnt like people butting in.

 

[clem]

I've been a member on this site for a couple of months now, and have found some really useful answers to some questions I've asked. I have encountered some delightful, kind and helpful people. I sincerely thank them for that, so please don't read the following as an indictment of the entire community.

Regrettably I have also found that there are certain members on Bonsai Nut who are unpleasant bullies and seem generally dreadful people. We've all seen posters whose responses are nasty and downright cruel. Some of them have titles like "masterpiece", but their behavior is anything but masterful. A true master guides the apprentice so that they can master their art. They do it through instruction and critique, not by ripping them a new one because they ask a question.

I can't stay silent any more. I've seen people who are new to bonsai get ripped to shreds for asking a question. I seen posts that call members stupid. I've seen members unhelpfully criticize aesthetic decisions. Critique is constructive and offers solutions. Frequently someone will ask a question and get slammed by a member because their tree hadn't enough taper in the trunk when they were asking for help with aphids! I've seen someone call legit questions "insipid". I have seen posts that have rudely told members that they "didn't think they have what it takes" and I've seen other members defending their abominable behavior. Not cool. Defending cruelty just because someone has had a long association with this site is just as reprehensible and shouldn't be tolerated.

This is not about "growing a thicker skin" as many have suggested. This is about developing some manners, this is about having simple decency. It's about putting the feelings of someone else ahead of your desire to toss out a withering quip for your own amusement. It's about learning that your crap stinks when you spew it forth, and that it hurts people when you do. Calling people stupid, or their questions insipid, or some of the sexist remarks I've seen are just abusive and it isn't acceptable. It doesn't impress and frankly, if I were the moderator, I would yank abusive users off the site. Period.

So how do we clean up our act? By speaking out. From now on, when I encounter a remark that is truly mean spirited and not constructive, I'm going to call that person out for their abusive behavior and would encourage others to do the same.

@sorce

 

[Vance Wood]

@sorce

Seeing that it has become necessary to revisit your misguided post here is a qoute for the same: A true master guides the apprentice so that they can master their art. They do it through instruction and critique, not by ripping them a new one because they ask a question.

You are stating as fact a fantasy that a true master guides the apprentice so that they can master their art. I have no idea what universe you have been living in but that is not the way most who are masters of their art behave. Ever heard of Frank Lloyd Wright to reference one? Most masters are not so much as interested in providing instruction, critique and indeed, a lot of the time they in fact do rip new ones on a regular basis for not reason than they can. Ask anyone who has participated in an apprenticeship relation with anyone, which incidentally is tantamount to a quasi-servant master relationship until the so called master decides you are worth the trouble. That my friend is the real world, not this Poly Anny rose colored glasses eyefull perception you down loaded as your opinion of how things should be. I agree you should not be regaled with a load of nasty post coming on this site. However I have been here for most of the time since your last soiled diaper and I have not seen anyone go out of the way to assault any new person on to this site. There are people that seem to think everything has to be the way they think it should be and get pissed of when reality does no square with the truth. I awaite being called out for your perceived abusive behavior.

 

[AlainK]

It is essential to have other activities in life than only bonsai.

Some do cross-stitch, some buy guns, some play classical guitar, some smoke sausages (or whatever), others are involved in charities or social-oriented activities...

Maybe some should try tree-hugging - or "forest bathing"

http://www.shinrin-yoku.org/shinrin-yoku.html

 

[clem]

Seeing that it has become necessary to revisit your misguided post here is a qoute for the same: A true master guides the apprentice so that they can master their art. They do it through instruction and critique, not by ripping them a new one because they ask a question.

You are stating as fact a fantasy that a true master guides the apprentice so that they can master their art. I have no idea what universe you have been living in but that is not the way most who are masters of their art behave. Ever heard of Frank Lloyd Wright to reference one? Most masters are not so much as interested in providing instruction, critique and indeed, a lot of the time they in fact do rip new ones on a regular basis for not reason than they can. Ask anyone who has participated in an apprenticeship relation with anyone, which incidentally is tantamount to a quasi-servant master relationship until the so called master decides you are worth the trouble. That my friend is the real world, not this Poly Anny rose colored glasses eyefull perception you down loaded as your opinion of how things should be. I agree you should not be regaled with a load of nasty post coming on this site. However I have been here for most of the time since your last soiled diaper and I have not seen anyone go out of the way to assault any new person on to this site. There are people that seem to think everything has to be the way they think it should be and get pissed of when reality does no square with the truth. I awaite being called out for your perceived abusive behavior.

Maybe you consider yourself a master, i don't...
i didn't understand the rest of your post sorry

i don't consider this forum as a cool place at all, anyway.. it doesn't at all gives me more passion for bonsai.. even Walter Pall said recently in a post that he was thinking of leaving it.. I 100% agree with the first post of this topic !

 

[Saddler]

Maybe you consider yourself a master, i don't...
i didn't understand the rest of your post sorry

i don't consider this forum as a cool place at all, anyway.. it doesn't at all gives me more passion for bonsai.. even Walter Pall said recently in a post that he was thinking of leaving it.. I 100% agree with the first post of this topic !

Where did Walter Pall say that?

 

[M. Frary]

Where did Walter Pall say that?

In the reporting a big maple thread.
Because some maroon kept questioning him saying that Walter needs to explain why he does what he does when he does it.

 

[Vance Wood]

Maybe you consider yourself a master, i don't...
i didn't understand the rest of your post sorry

i don't consider this forum as a cool place at all, anyway.. it doesn't at all gives me more passion for bonsai.. even Walter Pall said recently in a post that he was thinking of leaving it.. I 100% agree with the first post of this topic !

Good one, I don't consider myself a master and if you don't understand the rest of this post maybe your knowledge level is not so high as you suggest it might be. However you seem to be not much more than a troll.

 

[milehigh_7]

Maybe you consider yourself a master, i don't...
i didn't understand the rest of your post sorry

i don't consider this forum as a cool place at all, anyway.. it doesn't at all gives me more passion for bonsai.. even Walter Pall said recently in a post that he was thinking of leaving it.. I 100% agree with the first post of this topic !

Who cares... Don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya... buh bye.

 

[Lorax7]

In the reporting a big maple thread.
Because some maroon kept questioning him saying that Walter needs to explain why he does what he does when he does it.

FYI, you might want to consider retiring that term from your vocabulary. That usage of the word has racially charged origins.

 

[thumblessprimate1]

Seriously, I love Bonsai Nut.

 

[Saddler]

In the reporting a big maple thread.
Because some maroon kept questioning him saying that Walter needs to explain why he does what he does when he does it.

That’s what I thought. Boy oh boy did Clem take that way out of context.

 

[milehigh_7]

FYI, you might want to consider retiring that term from your vocabulary. That usage of the word has racially charged origins.

Go away...

 

[Potawatomi13]

FYI, you might want to consider retiring that term from your vocabulary. That usage of the word has racially charged origins.

TOO BAD, snowflake!

 

[milehigh_7]

Interestingly for @Lorax7 a fair number of their kind thinks Dr. Seuss was a racist also... Proof that if you look hard enough you can find something you hate in anyone... Typical leftists...

https://www.slj.com/?detailStory=ca...ica-shifts-away-dr-seuss-toward-diverse-books

 

[leatherback]

Ask anyone who has participated in an apprenticeship relation with anyone, which incidentally is tantamount to a quasi-servant master relationship until the so called master decides you are worth the trouble.

That is my experience from doing a PhD too. Where it takes 2 years of proving before they start listening to your ideas.

Because some maroon kept questioning him saying that Walter needs to explain why he does what he does when he does it.

Exactly, and with this making Vance's point. If you are at a certain level of your game, you may just tire of people not wanting to accept that something works. Then turn around and say: You know what.. I do not owe you one. I am happy to let you in on what I am doing. But stop nagging me.