Does ANYONE really like or appreciate the bitchiness on this site?

M. Frary said:
It's what people in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan call us people in the Lower Peninsula because we live under the bridge.
I kind of like it.
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Ahhh.... so “lower asshole”.....I kind of like it too?
 
Gsquared said:
I've been a member on this site for a couple of months now, and have found some really useful answers to some questions I've asked. I have encountered some delightful, kind and helpful people. I sincerely thank them for that, so please don't read the following as an indictment of the entire community.

Regrettably I have also found that there are certain members on Bonsai Nut who are unpleasant bullies and seem generally dreadful people. We've all seen posters whose responses are nasty and downright cruel. Some of them have titles like "masterpiece", but their behavior is anything but masterful. A true master guides the apprentice so that they can master their art. They do it through instruction and critique, not by ripping them a new one because they ask a question.

I can't stay silent any more. I've seen people who are new to bonsai get ripped to shreds for asking a question. I seen posts that call members stupid. I've seen members unhelpfully criticize aesthetic decisions. Critique is constructive and offers solutions. Frequently someone will ask a question and get slammed by a member because their tree hadn't enough taper in the trunk when they were asking for help with aphids! I've seen someone call legit questions "insipid". I have seen posts that have rudely told members that they "didn't think they have what it takes" and I've seen other members defending their abominable behavior. Not cool. Defending cruelty just because someone has had a long association with this site is just as reprehensible and shouldn't be tolerated.

This is not about "growing a thicker skin" as many have suggested. This is about developing some manners, this is about having simple decency. It's about putting the feelings of someone else ahead of your desire to toss out a withering quip for your own amusement. It's about learning that your crap stinks when you spew it forth, and that it hurts people when you do. Calling people stupid, or their questions insipid, or some of the sexist remarks I've seen are just abusive and it isn't acceptable. It doesn't impress and frankly, if I were the moderator, I would yank abusive users off the site. Period.

So how do we clean up our act? By speaking out. From now on, when I encounter a remark that is truly mean spirited and not constructive, I'm going to call that person out for their abusive behavior and would encourage others to do the same.
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Trolls suck and so do mean people, but so does all the disinformation that arises by people not being held accountable for what they say. I think this site is reserved for a more advanced bonsai enthusiast and with that a more serious approach to critisism.
Have you by chance ever done any jazz competitions were judges critic bands. They are flat out rude, and brutally honest. Can't say putting people down is right but the seriousness this site encompasses is important.
 
clem said:
thanks for your constructive advises, it's better than insults

ps : the forum is helpfull, people are skilled here... i just regret the dry and condescneding atmosphere
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You are very welcome.

Note: The atmosphere here is only condescending to people who are just on here to be argumentative, yet have nothing to show for themselves.
 
Gsquared said:
titles like "masterpiece", but their behavior is anything but masterful
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Skills in doing bonsai isn't really the same or related to social skills, in matter of fact I even think that some people love plants more than people. My stance on this subject is that I rather have the right answer and I can forgive the person on having less social skills (Well, I live in the Netherlands afterall, I'm kinda used to getting it right in the face without the sugar coating..).
 
clem said:
thanks for your constructive advises, it's better than insults

ps : the forum is helpfull, people are skilled here... i just regret the dry and condescneding atmosphere
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If that's true why do you find it necessary to come onto this site with insults and a condescending attitude?
 
Bonsai Nut said:
There are actually a lot of advanced topics being discussed... you just need to look for them :)
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@Bonsai Nut and anyone else for that matter, The above statement is 100% correct, and I thank you for offering them, sincerely!

I will also add, in my limited experience, that some people, usually newer, don't always take the time to look. they want the info for what they want and asap.
A free country right!
But for me, I would rather take the time and look, as to not bring up things that have been discussed over and over and over! I also give respect to those that have already gone through what I have, its just the way I was brought up. I also utilize the search option constantly, and will spend hours going through threads, sometimes I may get it, sometimes I don't, but I am always reading new ideas, techniques, and a ton of other info while searching for something else. So its not wasted time in my eyes. Furthermore, if you do LOOK and read through threads, you will learn which peeps are worth listening too and some that maybe are not, which in turn, speeds up my searching even faster.
So I Thank you Mr. B nut and will continue my education.
For those that have issues, I agree with others, in that, you can have a CHOICE to what you read/watch.

Happy trees to you all!
 
I am brand new to this forum so to me Gsqared seems like a seasoned veteran. I don't want do defend bad behavior and admittedly so far I've not encountered any truly boorish exchanges. Although I'm sure that there is someone out there who may be laying in wait to bust my bulbs. I plan to lurk for a while until I learn the culture. With that said, I am active member on a totally non related forum. A method that we use to help newbies who have sincere but basic / amateurish questions differentiate between good helpful advise and sarcasm is purple text. We have plenty of high post count members who enjoy rough ribbing we still encourage newbies to ask questions because mistakes in the context of the aforementioned forum can be dangerous or deadly. Bad advise here can still lead to dead trees which make loudpedal very sad The internet is a place where butthurt is passed out to everyone regularly. So if necessary use the ignore feature or take this forum off your favorites bar.

That's about all I have to say about that.
I love you guys.
 
Gsquared said:
I've been a member on this site for a couple of months now, and have found some really useful answers to some questions I've asked. I have encountered some delightful, kind and helpful people. I sincerely thank them for that, so please don't read the following as an indictment of the entire community.

Regrettably I have also found that there are certain members on Bonsai Nut who are unpleasant bullies and seem generally dreadful people. We've all seen posters whose responses are nasty and downright cruel. Some of them have titles like "masterpiece", but their behavior is anything but masterful. A true master guides the apprentice so that they can master their art. They do it through instruction and critique, not by ripping them a new one because they ask a question.

I can't stay silent any more. I've seen people who are new to bonsai get ripped to shreds for asking a question. I seen posts that call members stupid. I've seen members unhelpfully criticize aesthetic decisions. Critique is constructive and offers solutions. Frequently someone will ask a question and get slammed by a member because their tree hadn't enough taper in the trunk when they were asking for help with aphids! I've seen someone call legit questions "insipid". I have seen posts that have rudely told members that they "didn't think they have what it takes" and I've seen other members defending their abominable behavior. Not cool. Defending cruelty just because someone has had a long association with this site is just as reprehensible and shouldn't be tolerated.

This is not about "growing a thicker skin" as many have suggested. This is about developing some manners, this is about having simple decency. It's about putting the feelings of someone else ahead of your desire to toss out a withering quip for your own amusement. It's about learning that your crap stinks when you spew it forth, and that it hurts people when you do. Calling people stupid, or their questions insipid, or some of the sexist remarks I've seen are just abusive and it isn't acceptable. It doesn't impress and frankly, if I were the moderator, I would yank abusive users off the site. Period.

So how do we clean up our act? By speaking out. From now on, when I encounter a remark that is truly mean spirited and not constructive, I'm going to call that person out for their abusive behavior and would encourage others to do the same.
Click to expand...


Agree with most-everything here, I love this site for the obvious reason- high concentration of good bonsai artists- but of anywhere I post (reddit, IBC, ausbonsai) this place is definitely where I find the most inhospitable people *but* I think it's important to stress that I don't find it to be "the overall tone of the forum" but rather that there's just a pocket of very frequent users who, to put it as politely & objectively as possible, display incredible levels of bad-faith to people. I'm one of them (those treated that way, I like to think I'm amicable in all my postings) although I've seen the same users post similar things to many others before, I think it's more "tolerated" because veteran = respect in people's eyes but in reality "veteran" at a message board really doesn't tell you much about how good an artist the person is - what I mean to say is that it'd truly bug me if (when?) Walter Pall seems irritated that I'm pushing for minutiae whereas now it's just a petty annoyance when I get accused, by the same group of ~3 people, of "not listening to what I'm told" It used to bother me a lot more before because I hated the idea anyone would think I was discussing things and then simply "going with my gut" in direct defiance of the advice I asked-for&received here, but over time I saw the same people behaving..."in bad faith" to many others and for myriad reasons, and realized not to put much weight on it.

So how do we clean up our act? By speaking out. From now on, when I encounter a remark that is truly mean spirited and not constructive, I'm going to call that person out for their abusive behavior and would encourage others to do the same.
Click to expand...
100% agree, and intend to do so! In fact the "why post when you never even listen!?" comment was lobbed at me recently and is sitting in one of the 20 browser windows on my desktop, I do intend to respond appropriately when I finally work my way through these windows and find it rofl!!

I can understand resentment, hell even ridicule, in certain instances IE a beginner posting, rudely, "I just got a bonsai as a gift, can someone please write-out a detailed guide for me? I think it's a Juniper and no I won't get pics", but for the overwhelming majority of posts that are actually about bonsai (ie, discounting non-sequitur comments, they seem to be a higher % here than most bonsai boards), the person posting is posting in good-faith and should be replied to in-kind.
 
SU2 said:
Agree with most-everything here, I love this site for the obvious reason- high concentration of good bonsai artists- but of anywhere I post (reddit, IBC, ausbonsai) this place is definitely where I find the most inhospitable people *but* I think it's important to stress that I don't find it to be "the overall tone of the forum" but rather that there's just a pocket of very frequent users who, to put it as politely & objectively as possible, display incredible levels of bad-faith to people. I'm one of them (those treated that way, I like to think I'm amicable in all my postings) although I've seen the same users post similar things to many others before, I think it's more "tolerated" because veteran = respect in people's eyes but in reality "veteran" at a message board really doesn't tell you much about how good an artist the person is - what I mean to say is that it'd truly bug me if (when?) Walter Pall seems irritated that I'm pushing for minutiae whereas now it's just a petty annoyance when I get accused, by the same group of ~3 people, of "not listening to what I'm told" It used to bother me a lot more before because I hated the idea anyone would think I was discussing things and then simply "going with my gut" in direct defiance of the advice I asked-for&received here, but over time I saw the same people behaving..."in bad faith" to many others and for myriad reasons, and realized not to put much weight on it.


100% agree, and intend to do so! In fact the "why post when you never even listen!?" comment was lobbed at me recently and is sitting in one of the 20 browser windows on my desktop, I do intend to respond appropriately when I finally work my way through these windows and find it rofl!!

I can understand resentment, hell even ridicule, in certain instances IE a beginner posting, rudely, "I just got a bonsai as a gift, can someone please write-out a detailed guide for me? I think it's a Juniper and no I won't get pics", but for the overwhelming majority of posts that are actually about bonsai (ie, discounting non-sequitur comments, they seem to be a higher % here than most bonsai boards), the person posting is posting in good-faith and should be replied to in-kind.
Click to expand...
It depends. Lots of times, people new to this forum ask a question that’s been asked and answered dozens of times before. Then they get insulted when told to “search the archives”.

The forum doesn’t “owe” anyone anything.

Personally, I will bend over backwards trying to help some people who will carefully listen to my advice and do their best to apply it.

Conversely, I will ignore people who tell me “you have too many rules...”. I don’t need to affirm others ignorance and unwillingness to learn.
 
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