Does ANYONE really like or appreciate the bitchiness on this site?

[Bananaman]

No, I am not suggesting that!
I would be happy if there could be a forum where high-end (if I'm allower to use this term) members would post trees and their progression route and talk about their techniques and suggest methods and talk about aesthetic aspects of those trees.
It should be a moderated forum though.
I wouldn't like people/members posting irrelevant comments or ask newbies' questions or anything like that.
However, this approach will seem definitely elitist, so....
I believe that the rest of us would have significant benefit following those discussions.

There was one. called Bonsai Study Group. It was an internet forum of mostly Boon students. Mostly they got along amongst themselves but did not appreciate much outside intervention. They all agreed with each other and gave the correct hand salute and the for the most part it is now defunct. I went there last week and everyone that was a Boon student hasn't posted in years and there were a dozen or so recent questions from newbs left unanswered. Is that what you were thinking?

 

[Cadillactaste]

Pass...on the subdivision where one has to be part of an elite group to pass the buck. That's not me...if I wish to shoot one of those elite a question through PM...then I do so. But to have an elite group forum. Where others can't learn from their experience...seems...backward of what I thought a forum was about. To better the hobby and to help others advance...and advance ones own knowledge. Unless I am not grasping the situation being stated. But...I here by state...I do not wish to be part of it. If there is an elite forum ,off grid sort of thing that takes place.

 

[Anthony]

I make this suggestion simply because I have seen the frustration
that comes from being a source of knowledge.

There comes a time when experience sits and chats.

Let me give you an example -

Years ago K placed a back branch on a tree, and we had the
experienced friends over.
Much discussion on design and balance and how it worked.

Next week he had the new to Bonsai over.
Discussion on back branch not in the right place.
Forget balance and design.

I doubt the information on this would dry up simply
because there are archives.
What we were taught was read / take notes at the archives
and a few months later if you need to, ask questions.
I believe both Boon and Robert Stevens were once here.
I sent Mr. Stevens a thank you on his bit on their soils.
[ memory here could be wrong - archives ]

Al, I never got that Boon feeling on BSG, but was
that not you with a big bag of akadama ?
Just teasing by the way.

I am not sure what this - Elite - thingee is ----- must be
a North Americanism.
All are welcome down here, expert or beginner.
Come and have a cuppa.
Just call 3 days in advance ------- good form.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[Adair M]

There was one. called Bonsai Study Group. It was an internet forum of mostly Boon students. Mostly they got along amongst themselves but did not appreciate much outside intervention. They all agreed with each other and gave the correct hand salute and the for the most part it is now defunct. I went there last week and everyone that was a Boon student hasn't posted in years and there were a dozen or so recent questions from newbs left unanswered. Is that what you were thinking?

On this forum, there is a thread where the rule is, you must post a picture of one of your trees. This small requirement has elevated it out of the muck, and for the most part, all the trees pictured are pretty good. Usually not a lot of discussion occurs, but some does, and when it does, it’s usually on point. The thread is called: THE TREE THREAD.

Check it out

 

[my nellie]

There was one. called Bonsai Study Group... ...Is that what you were thinking?

No, absolutely not.
After those few years at BNut, I have come to understand that some of the experienced (and/or professional) artists/craftsmen in this forum do belong to the same school and they may have the same attitude.
But there are also a lot of others who do not belong to that school and who have a different approach.
Cannot all of them post their work and discuss their viewpoints together, in mutual respect? I do believe they can!

What I have in mind is exactly at post #512
You experienced ones post and talk and we read and benefit from your discussion.
No egos!
Besides I think we (not so experienced) already do what I proposed. We read, we collect information, we get educated but we do not necessarily post.

 

[my nellie]

@Bananaman Al, would you like to explain if Vin has correctly interpreted you in his reply to @Cable

Just yesterday I posted a tree and asked for advice. I see posts about trees all the time. Are we on different forums?

Okay, please don't take this the wrong way because it is in no way meant to be bitchy. He's talking about trees that are either what one may consider developed bonsai or material that very close to being "bonsai". Nursery stock that just had a load of work done to it is not how he wants to be challenged. It's kind of like comparing Kindergarten to University. Two totally different levels of interaction. I hope that makes sense to you and doesn't come across as an insult.

So, are you talking about this level of bonsai work, Al?

 

[my nellie]

Hello Darlene,

... ...if I wish to shoot one of those elite a question through PM...then I do so. But to have an elite group forum. Where others can't learn from their experience...

May I ask you a question, if you please.
Suppose I am reading a discussion among three members of the "elite group" (your term, not mine). They are debating about removing a back branch on an advanced level bonsai tree.
Each one of them presents one's arguments, which are discussed and they come to a commonly accepted conclusion that the branch should only be pruned back to reduce its length and not be cut back.
Do you think that I have nothing to learn from their experience which is presented through their arguments although I cannot post/comment?
The same benefit of learning will have everyone who will follow reading the said discussion.

Now suppose that I need to ask a question to one member of the "elite group" (your term, not mine) and I send this question through PM.
Of course I will learn from the reply BUT no one else will have the benefit of learning, because the conversation was personal and not posted on the forum.

 

[Cadillactaste]

Hello Darlene,May I ask you a question, if you please.
Suppose I am reading a discussion among three members of the "elite group" (your term, not mine). They are debating about removing a back branch on an advanced level bonsai tree.
Each one of them presents one's arguments, which are discussed and they come to a commonly accepted conclusion that the branch should only be pruned back to reduce its length and not be cut back.
Do you think that I have nothing to learn from their experience which is presented with their arguments?
The same benefit of learning will have everyone who will follow reading the said discussion.

Now suppose that I need to ask a question to one member of the "elite group" (your term, not mine) and I send this question through PM.
Of course I will learn from the reply BUT no one else will have the benefit of learning, because the conversation was personal and not posted on the forum.

I was assuming only the elite group has access to this area. (How I took it)so possibly one with less tender would never see the post anyways. No learning there for any newb.That is my beef...if only a select few were permitted to that area.
Edit:
Spell check changed newb to been.

 

[my nellie]

I was assuming only the elite group has access to this area. (How I took it)so possibly one with less tender would never see the post anyways. No learning there for any been. That is my beef...if only a select few were permitted to that area.

Everyone permitted "to that area" but "a select few" are the only ones who post high-end trees and talk about their progression, their techniques, their designs and so on.

 

[Cadillactaste]

@my nellie ... Honestly...hasn't Walter Pall done that here in the past...as also Judy and others with similar quality trees? I think it sounds like a lot of back work for Greg. Bottom line...I just don't see anything wrong with the forum as a whole now. I am curious what kind of additional work hours of Greg's spare time it would take to add such a method...and why it needs a special area where one can't ask why one does one thing over the next. How does one learn...if they have questions. But...end of the day. It's Greg's time...and how he sees to run the forum. I don't see it as broken. But honestly...won't lose sleep either or.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Hi Leo,

Not sure if I'm misreading what you wrote but I'm not advocating for any kind of special subforum. I was just arguing that no matter how it would be implemented the end result would be the same. I don't think it's a good idea in any case, I think it would result in the gradual demise of the forum.

It is probably me that mis-read you, if you are against a separate new sub-forum, I am too. We are on the same page.

 

[LanceMac10]

 

[Bananaman]

@Bananaman Al, would you like to explain if Vin has correctly interpreted you in his reply to @Cable

So, are you talking about this level of bonsai work, Al?

Just what exactly do you think my role here is? Lets say that the tree Cable is talking about is the one I already asked a question in. I told him I will take the time and give him a detailed idea of what I see. In my home I take on students. Havn't since my wife died but five years ago I would take on people for one calendar year to hit all the seasons. But lets say that Cable is my student and he brought that tree to me for a look see that day. There are two questions that need to be answered. How big of a tree do you see this as. One a big thick juniper, then put it in the ground or a wine barrel and don't bring it back to me for at least seven years...next. Or...he says what do you see right now that I could do with what I have. Then we could go to work and have a respectable tree or the beginnings of a respectable tree very quickly. That part only comes if he plays.

Now if you feel that I should take this kind of time with every fricken poster here your crazy. I don't have the time nor do I feel like putting in that much brain work for people that probably will just argue that I'm crazy cause they don't get it or see it. There are people giving advice on this forum every day. I see guys with like 15 posts and sticks in pots telling someone with years of experience what he should do to his tree. And people tell me I'm rude!!!

I am a realist. I do not cater to the whims of trophies for everyone and that heathcare should be free to the world. When I see people , that really don't know what their talking about telling someone that has just ruined a twenty dollar juniper by pulling all the green off of 9 inch long matchstick size whips, I hang my head sometimes and really feel sorry for that guy. The false praise and the feeling that he is doing good, When in REALITY he just ruined that juniper for at least 5 years.

I would help anyone that asks me personally for help. I would give them quick advice or maybe a sketch or something, but I'm not here to be the forum guru. I don't get paid to do this shit. I'm not here for everyone...and lately thats all there is here. All the good tree people are in hiding it seems.

 

[Bananaman]

Everyone permitted "to that area" but "a select few" are the only ones who post high-end trees and talk about their progression, their techniques, their designs and so on.

Thats what I have a blog for. I come here for the entertainment value!!!

 

[Bananaman]

I don't know about Judy, but I have a blog, Brian V Fleet has a blog, Maros, Mach V, Yenling the list goes on. You can see anything you want to see there on those blogs and with out all the useless crap talk from the same mouthpieces.

 

[my nellie]

Hello Al @Bananaman
A very short answer to all three posts of yours : No, I don't think you are the forum guru charged the duty to answer all questions (either justified or not). I simply wanted to have the correct idea about what kind of trees you would like to see posted (which you have asked repeatedly lately).
I do know and visit blogs mentioned above (yours, Walter's, Brian's, Maros' and some other)
I do know that you and others (and Judy too, who is the first person in this forum I have ever contacted via pm) will reply to questions asked.
BUT wouldn't it be a very happy event if three or four or five of you guys would sit together here and talk and critique the same tree?

One more thing and I will not post in this thread again, one needed clarification, because I see that I have been misunderstood...
I am in no way asking/proposing a new sub-forum to be created or that Mr. Greg @Bonsai Nut could be added one more added activity. I have simply put forward for discussion my thoughts.... something like talking to myself loudly

Concluding, I apologize for any confusion resulted. That was not my intention

 

[Anthony]

@my nellie ,

Alexandra,

please note as someone mentioned in another topic,
The North American Summer heat / rain etc is in full
swing ------- not nicee time.

We in the Caribbean are cool, breezy and some rain.
Getting ready for even cooler, more pleasant weather.
Hugs and Kisses from the beach house - looking at Sea grapes.
Good Day
Anthony - tanned and salty and I will be beef red for a week -
English Skin don't like sun -

 

[JudyB]

No, absolutely not.
After those few years at BNut, I have come to understand that some of the experienced (and/or professional) artists/craftsmen in this forum do belong to the same school and they may have the same attitude.
But there are also a lot of others who do not belong to that school and who have a different approach.
Cannot all of them post their work and discuss their viewpoints together, in mutual respect? I do believe they can!

What I have in mind is exactly at post #512
You experienced ones post and talk and we read and benefit from your discussion.
No egos!
Besides I think we (not so experienced) already do what I proposed. We read, we collect information, we get educated but we do not necessarily post.

I can't speak for anyone else, but every tree I post and get comments on, be it experienced or newbies, I take into consideration. That is if the intent is constructive. I don't necessarily apply the advice, but it can lead to discussion that will help the user base understand how decisions are made and implemented. Every person sees something different, and a new person might just happen to see a component that others might miss.

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes...

 

[coh]

I can't speak for anyone else, but every tree I post and get comments on, be it experienced or newbies, I take into consideration. That is if the intent is constructive. I don't necessarily apply the advice, but it can lead to discussion that will help the user base understand how decisions are made and implemented. Every person sees something different, and a new person might just happen to see a component that others might miss.

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes...

Very true. Sometimes those with less experience and less exposure to "the rules" can see things that we are blinded to.

 

[my nellie]

I'm proving myself a liar but I couldn't help it...

@coh @Vance Wood @MichaelS do you recall a thread titled "American Bonsai at the NC Arboretum" by Mr. Arthur Joura on IBC? Do you recall the discussion between Mr. Joura and Mr. @Walter Pall ? The one which Mrs. Fiona had divided into two separate threads...
That's the idea behind....