Does ANYONE really like or appreciate the bitchiness on this site?

[Cable]

Okay, please don't take this the wrong way because it is in no way meant to be bitchy. He's talking about trees that are either what one may consider developed bonsai or material that very close to being "bonsai". Nursery stock that just had a load of work done to it is not how he wants to be challenged. It's kind of like comparing Kindergarten to University. Two totally different levels of interaction. I hope that makes sense to you and doesn't come across as an insult.

No I get it. I don't have any "real" trees. But I hope to some day! However, to say that nobody is posting trees is a fallacy. Maybe none that are worth his time (which is fine) but certainly not none at all. Walter posted some the other day. Maybe he has just outgrown this forum?

n00bs are people, too. I thought we were welcome. ;-)

 

[Vin]

That’s the problem with public forums. People over state what someone says. For effect you decided to add that the juniper should look like something Kimura made. I didn’t say that at all. I said something that could be placed in the club show. If there is one thing I don’t like it’s people putting words in my mouth. I would like people to quote what is said that way there is no room for exaggeration. It does not make for better forum to miss state people’s words.

I also stated "someone more advanced" so who said I was talking about you? LOL! You're killing me!

 

[my nellie]

So what are you suggesting - sounds like a sub-forum where only certain designated members could post or respond? So only folks like bananaman, bvf, sergio, judy, etc could post?

No, I am not suggesting that!
I would be happy if there could be a forum where high-end (if I'm allower to use this term) members would post trees and their progression route and talk about their techniques and suggest methods and talk about aesthetic aspects of those trees.
It should be a moderated forum though.
I wouldn't like people/members posting irrelevant comments or ask newbies' questions or anything like that.
However, this approach will seem definitely elitist, so....
I believe that the rest of us would have significant benefit following those discussions.

 

[Vin]

No I get it. I don't have any "real" trees. But I hope to some day! However, to say that nobody is posting trees is a fallacy. Maybe none that are worth his time (which is fine) but certainly not none at all. Walter posted some the other day. Maybe he has just outgrown this forum?

n00bs are people, too. I thought we were welcome. ;-)

You are welcome, who would need this forum if we have all reached the pinnacle of bonsai knowledge?

 

[my nellie]

It would be highly productive, simply because the older
heads could talk about where they are.
They could still do the - help my bonsai is dying bit as well.
Or I bought a mallsai.
And no I would not be accepted - Tropics, Simple designs
and a temperature of 70 to say 86 deg,F -------- optimum
for tree growth,
No good talking to anyone out of that range.
Good Day
Anthony

I think the same!
It would be highly productive!
And yes they could still help with new comers but away of that devoted forum. The way they are doing now.
But I do not agree with your estimation about you or K not been accepted

 

[my nellie]

There already is a forum for that Αλεξάνδρα. All I'm saying is just because someone more advanced in bonsai doesn't respond to posts that ask nothing more than basic gardening questions or give detailed instructions on how to make a newly purchased Home Depot juniper look like something Kimura created doesn't mean they're assholes or the Earth's axis has shifted. It's all good though.

No, no, not at all!
I feel OK with everyone and I accept the fact that everyone has his own character (which I respect).
Nevertheless, I can tell who is more accessible and has better "teaching qualities" but this has nothing to do with their experience and mastery of art/craftsmanship.
I have never asked a question and not been given an answer here in BNut.

But which is that forum already existing?
Do you mean "Advanced Topics" ?
If yes, this is not what I have in mind....

 

[coh]

No, I am not suggesting that!
I would be happy if there could be a forum where high-end (if I'm allower to use this term) members would post trees and their progression route and talk about their techniques and suggest methods and talk about aesthetic aspects of those trees.
It should be a moderated forum though.
I wouldn't like people/members posting irrelevant comments or ask newbies' questions or anything like that.
However, this approach will seem definitely elitist, so....
I believe that the rest of us would have significant benefit following those discussions.

That's basically the same thing.

Method 1: Have a specifically designated subforum where only selected members could post (no moderation needed). Anyone can still look, though.
Method 2: Have a specifically designated subforum for "advanced members" where anyone can post, but a moderator removes any comments deemed inappropriate.

Same result even if the mechanics are a little different. And since Greg has said many times he has no interest in moderation, it's not likely to happen.

Maybe it would make sense to have a sub-forum or pinned list of "great threads" like exist on other forums (the exact term eludes me right now).

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Yikes, 26 pages, I'm glad I haven't bothered to read them. I did read half a dozen posts. Judging by the energy and longevity of this thread, it is a real issue.

First, a simple, no, I don't like the occasional bitchiness.

Second, and most important. I know on occasion I have contributed to the bitchiness. For that I apologize. Usually it is because I am frustrated, sometimes the frustration source is my personal life, and I blow off steam at any target convenient. I really try not to do this, but I'm human. Sometime I am frustrated with what I see as poor advice being repeatedly offered by a handful (maybe 6 or 7) individuals who have been doing bonsai for less than 10 years and feel they ''know everything'', and feel they must be ''helpful'' by offering poor or incorrect advice. This will occasionally get me to snipe at someone.

I also apologize for getting on a kick where I feel I ''have to respond to every post'', thankfully I rarely have time for this to go on very long, but while I'm on one of these binges, it can annoy others. I also have a good memory for everything I read and can get into ''parrot mode'' to borrow from Smoke's terminology. But I have been growing bonsai since 1971, though only seriously since 2004, in the 47 years I have grown quite a few species of trees, some more successful than others. But sometimes I do post information that is ''internet knowledge'' without actual experience. If I am clear about it, and state so, I don't feel guilty, but occasionally I don't distinguish between what I've got experience with and what is ''parroting''. So I apologize for this.

As to others behavior, I won't comment, as I live in a glass house.

I enjoy the liveliness of this forum, compared to others. I regret some of the most expert, well trained, deep knowledge members no longer post, I feel their absence. There is the issue that the written word does not deliver tone of voice, so some attempts at humor fall flat. But if we all resist the urge to do an instant response, it will remain a lively but friendly place.

There are times that it is best to ''back away from the keyboard, you can't correct everyone who is wrong on the internet''.

 

[Anthony]

Alexandra,

we have a massively unfair advantage, our climate and with a
fridge added on it will get worse.
We have maybe 8 to 9 months for active growth, as rain, dry,
cool air, and shorter days do have an effect, but the clinate
still alters the results.

Which is why, the celtis was suggested, maybe we have one
tree type in common. Can then pass on some experience to
each other.

My idea of an experienced forum, would be, we could read, but
not post.

Coh, IBC and BSG, are mild forums, lots of help for newbees.
Used to be very International, but other countries have their own
forums, and no longer need the help of IBC.

BSG was always a mild and pleasant forum.

How about another round of - Help I got this Mallsai for Christmas
and I don't like to read ------------ give it to me in point form.
AND I am not going to provide the needed temperature/lighting plus
lets fertilse the ill.
Or I hate Bonsai groups in reality, just type.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

That's basically the same thing.

Method 1: Have a specifically designated subforum where only selected members could post (no moderation needed). Anyone can still look, though.
Method 2: Have a specifically designated subforum for "advanced members" where anyone can post, but a moderator removes any comments deemed inappropriate.

Same result even if the mechanics are a little different. And since Greg has said many times he has no interest in moderation, it's not likely to happen.

Maybe it would make sense to have a sub-forum or pinned list of "great threads" like exist on other forums (the exact term eludes me right now).

I understand the motive for these suggestions Chris. With the membership of this forum being all volunteer, a big issue would be finding seasoned experts who have the time to commit to responding in these forums to make this idea viable. Good idea, difficult to execute.

BNut does have its resource threads, which is a form of ''great threads'', for what ever that is worth.

 

[GailC]

No, I am not suggesting that!
I would be happy if there could be a forum where high-end (if I'm allower to use this term) members would post trees and their progression route and talk about their techniques and suggest methods and talk about aesthetic aspects of those trees.
It should be a moderated forum though.
I wouldn't like people/members posting irrelevant comments or ask newbies' questions or anything like that.
However, this approach will seem definitely elitist, so....
I believe that the rest of us would have significant benefit following those discussions.

I used to go to a forum that had a advanced topics subforum that was invite only. It was not viewable by anyone who didn't have posting rights.

Most members didn't even know it existed and there was never any kind of problems with it.

It was a great asset for the more senior members. I personally would have no issue with something similar here but I do believe it should be kept private and anyone who can post there shouldn't gloat about it.

 

[my nellie]

@coh This is similar to what I would like the special forum to be

... ...My idea of an experienced forum, would be, we could read, but
not post.

 

[Vin]

@coh This is similar to what I would like the special forum to be

I get what you guys are thinking and the intentions are good. However, there would be people that would get their feelings hurt if they were not invited to be one of the chosen few. We could end up losing valuable members and that wouldn't be good at all.

 

[Anthony]

Vin,

not invited ----- 5 trees and you have to impress to get in.

Say -Bnut, Al, Sifu [ Adair ] Vance, Scott , Frank, Brian V, .......................................................
10 to choose the rest of the Valar.

Then they chat about what is on their minds with trees, and we read along.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[Clicio]

not invited ----- 5 trees and you have to impress to get in.

Impress WHOM?

 

[Anthony]

Well I think we already know who the experienced ones are,
and Bnut will with say 5 of them, start the ball rolling.

So I gather they will be the ones to impress.[ Bnut plus the 5 ]
Good Day
Anthony

 

[atlarsenal]

Why don’t those 5 just text message each other and the rest of us won’t know and won’t give a shit!!!

 

[AZbonsai]

It would be nice IMO if there was no litmus test for whether or not you are "bonsai" enough to have something you post have merit. We have enough of that crap going on in the world now. Are you "conservative" ..."liberal" ...."white" ...."black"...enough. It is tiring and it limits discussion.

 

[LanceMac10]

 

[coh]

I understand the motive for these suggestions Chris. With the membership of this forum being all volunteer, a big issue would be finding seasoned experts who have the time to commit to responding in these forums to make this idea viable. Good idea, difficult to execute.

BNut does have its resource threads, which is a form of ''great threads'', for what ever that is worth.

Hi Leo,

Not sure if I'm misreading what you wrote but I'm not advocating for any kind of special subforum. I was just arguing that no matter how it would be implemented the end result would be the same. I don't think it's a good idea in any case, I think it would result in the gradual demise of the forum.