Bonsai worthy?

[just.wing.it]

Damn yo....I ran outta popcorn!

 

[Carol 83]

If you ask the question, you should be prepared for an honest answer, like it or not. I think the OP handled the responses quite graciously. He likes the tree, put it in a pot, has no illusions of grandeur for it, but is enjoying the flowers. All good.

 

[shinmai]

If the owner is the principle viewer why do I see a shitload of trees posted that one are not bonsai and two are not worthy of becoming bonsai. Be the owner and the principle. If you post it here you have given up that right. At that point my right, as well, is to call a spade a spade. Hope that’s not too harsh but you got to think about what you write. Always keep that in mind when you post to a public forum. When you mash the POST button, what you think about your tree matters no more.

It’s ‘principal’ in that context, genius.

 

[Smoke]

It’s ‘principal’ in that context, genius.

Makes you feel great don't it, wagging that tail.....This is where its at now.. taking the shots at the grammar. I guess thats what you have to do when you have no trees to show....

Bonsai genius

 

[shinmai]

You have no idea what trees I, or anyone else, have to show.
Perhaps you should also learn basic sentence construction, and the correct use of apostrophes and contractions. If you intend to weaponize the English language to further your bullying, bombastic bullshit, at least use it correctly. As it is, you only solidify the perception of what a crude, inarticulate cretin you have been, and remain. The only person amused or impressed by your nastiness is you.

 

[Vance Wood]

Totally agree. That's part of what I was commenting on earlier - people want that sugar plumb fairy stuff with sparkles and sprinkles. If not, they get all bent out of shape and start throwing insults around. If my tree is shit, and I don't realize my tree is shit, I'd like to know! I think all my trees are shit though, so I really don't have anywhere to go but up! Just trying to find good starts in Canada is nearly impossible, and I'm too old to be starting seeds. I think a lot of the differences here (and elsewhere) are simply down to different generations and different cultures which all come down to different ways of communicating.



I wasn't talking about this thread. I quoted the fellow who asked if there was always so much anger/drama/whatever he said. ...and still, you want to try to insult my profession. Why? I never insulted you. You may have been offended, but that was a choice. I'm not offended by your insult, that's my choice. I love my business, and love my work.

But: Your experience level hardly makes you a source authority on matters bonsai.

 

[Potawatomi13]

The title is " Bonsai Worthy" not does it appeal to some individuals. It is a great example of not suitable for Bonsai. IMHO

Frank, was it perhaps Kimura who said (paraphrase) "There are no bad trees, only less talented artists"? Considering some Bonsai "growers" lack of humility this I consider an axiom. Not an inference to yourself please.

 

[Potawatomi13]

This is good and wonderful as far as it goes. However; Camellia are very difficult to grow and keep past the first time they bloom. They are fertilizer hogs and need high acid requirements. As a bonsai they are among the most difficult to keep alive.

Sound like Azaleas. How many thousands of Azalea "Bonsai" exist? So difficult are Manzanita! Eventually these also will be figured out. Unworthy? NO!

 

[Myka]

But: Your experience level hardly makes you a source authority on matters bonsai.

There are two conversations in this thread - one has nothing to do with bonsai. I never once gave bonsai advice on this thread.

 

[Cajunrider]

Ladies and Gents,

It appears I'll have to buy some popcorn for my own thread.

All kidding aside, I remain humble in the field of bonsai. I know that I don't know much and will accept all valid advice regardless of how they are delivered. You folks are who you are and Bonsai Nut isn't the venue to change you. I appreciate the fact that you took the time to answer my question, silly though it was because I myself knew that the twisted together Camellias were not meant to be bonsai. I sort of asked the question because where I came from, some people value trees with crazy roots and structure. Some even try to develop reverse tapers and burls. It's a practice far from bonsai and only share the common trait of having trees in pots.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Feel free to agree to disagree

The OP asked for opinions. In my case, I would pass on this material, because the roots would be problematic for me to create an illusion of a large tree in a natural (believable) style. But don't let that stop you from changing my opinion by creating something awesome that I couldn't see

All this hating on camellias! I love camellias, because it is one thing that I can grow on the north side of our house. Prettiest things that bloom in my garden - even beating out my hibiscus and roses! If I had a big camellia that was worthy, I would definitely try to cultivate it as a bonsai, but it would have to be rather large due to the leaves. It could certainly be done! Just don't forget your acid fertilizer

 

[Smoke]

You have no idea what trees I, or anyone else, have to show.
Perhaps you should also learn basic sentence construction, and the correct use of apostrophes and contractions. If you intend to weaponize the English language to further your bullying, bombastic bullshit, at least use it correctly. As it is, you only solidify the perception of what a crude, inarticulate cretin you have been, and remain. The only person amused or impressed by your nastiness is you.

If you had them you would post them. Those that can't rant.

 

[River's Edge]

Frank, was it perhaps Kimura who said (paraphrase) "There are no bad trees, only less talented artists"? Considering some Bonsai "growers" lack of humility this I consider an axiom. Not an inference to yourself please.

I tend to agree with this sentiment, in that so often there is a way to get the most out of what appears to be an unsuitable beginning! But i think it is unlikely that the speaker intended it as an excuse for selecting poor material with obvious faults.
When one understands the time and talent required, not to mention lucky outcomes, then one tends to become more discriminating in the initial selection of suitable material.
To put the sentiment in perspective may be also to suggest that as ones skill and experience levels rise then so does the ability to find the tree in material others would reject.
I do have a bias, i believe one of the most important skills is the ability to select suitable species and specimens for Bonsai. Simply put, what basic things, if they are in place will make the difference between a stick in the pot and a pre-bonsai. It is difficult to improve ones eye and design abilities if one is always looking at sticks in a pot. As an educator i believe it is important to set students up for success rather than failure.

But not at the expense of neglecting experimentation and learning from " off the grid" excursions. Some of the " best" practitioners if not all, have trees in the background that defy traditional logic. It should not stop one from expanding the skill set and body of knowledge.
That is my excuse for working with species considered unsuitable or problematic. My latest camellia is in the ground thickening as we speak. It will be a larger " Bonsai" some day! Current trunk is 2 inch and it stretches 30'' high. prefers morning sun, shady afternoons, and lots of fertiliser. Also in the background are Asian Pear, and Wisteria to name a few.

 

[Smoke]

Maybe...

 

[Smoke]

As an educator i believe it is important to set students up for success rather than failure.
.

I guess I need to find the point to walk away rather then try and help someone to understand the success part over fighting for the failure. I try and do the best, buy the best and collect the best that I can and within my limits. To argue for less is foreign to me. Just me I guess.

 

[Adair M]

I think it’s also necessary to take Kimura’s statement with a grain of salt. He is well known for taking mediocre bonsai and restyling them into very nice specimens. But, take into consideration that he would start with a pretty well established bonsai. He was also known for taking raw collected junipers and completely transforming them. Junipers can be heavily bent and manipulated, but that not true for every species.

So, yes, he was (is) able to make some pretty stunning bonsai out of trees that might bewilder others, but that does not mean he can make masterpieces out of everything! Oh, I suppose given enough time, you can make any tree grow into something better, but I don’t think that’s what he had in mind.

 

[coh]

First off...camellias can make very nice bonsai. I've seen enough photos in International Bonsai over the years (and other places) to know that.

In this case, the tree being discussed is a very long term project at best. Straight skinny trunks and that root base is...well, hideous to me. Maybe others see it differently and I do tend to subscribe to the attitude "hey, if you like it and have the time to spend, what do I care?" Still, I think this is similar to that trident that was being discussed in another thread (the one with the bad surface roots and scars all over the trunk). In the amount of time (and effort) it would take to make it into "something", you could accomplish a lot more with a better piece of starting material, probably even something younger and cheaper.

As for the rest of the stuff being argued about here - people should ask themselves, "when was the last time you saw someone on the internet change their behavior because you complained about it?" If the answer is never (which I think it is based on my experience), you might want to just put those people on ignore. Smoke ain't gonna change the way he responds. I had the same battles with him in years past (probably almost word for word in some cases) but I have to say - after being on the various forums for 7 or 8 years now, I understand better where he is coming from.

Anyway...

 

[Smoke]

First off...camellias can make very nice bonsai. I've seen enough photos in International Bonsai over the years (and other places) to know that.

In this case, the tree being discussed is a very long term project at best. Straight skinny trunks and that root base is...well, hideous to me. Maybe others see it differently and I do tend to subscribe to the attitude "hey, if you like it and have the time to spend, what do I care?" Still, I think this is similar to that trident that was being discussed in another thread (the one with the bad surface roots and scars all over the trunk). In the amount of time (and effort) it would take to make it into "something", you could accomplish a lot more with a better piece of starting material, probably even something younger and cheaper.

That's the part I need to change. I do care. That is what I always thought this kind of place was here for. At least that's how it started twenty years ago when I started on the forums. People less learned gained wisdom from those that had the answers. Now those people just want to argue with you, tell you your grammar is bad and your breath stinks, or you tell grandparents they have ugly kids. I just want people to have better bonsai and I'm not afraid to tell you that how you are doing it is not the way. If you don't want to hear that then those that have the answers are wasting their time here. Unless you just come for the entertainment, which now I know @Brian Van Fleet does!!!

As for the rest of the stuff being argued about here - people should ask themselves, "when was the last time you saw someone on the internet change their behavior because you complained about it?" If the answer is never (which I think it is based on my experience), you might want to just put those people on ignore. Smoke ain't gonna change the way he responds. I had the same battles with him in years past (probably almost word for word in some cases) but I have to say - after being on the various forums for 7 or 8 years now, I understand better where he is coming from.

Anyway...

Wait till you are at one for twenty years, we will be exchanging Christmas cards....lol

 

[shinmai]

If you had them you would post them. Those that can't rant.

I would truly love to have the opportunity to meet you in person, and I sincerely invite you to look me up if you’re ever in my city. I guarantee you that if you ever had the spine and temerity to speak to me face to face the way you do to people on this forum, you would very shortly find yourself on your ass, counting your teeth as you picked them up from the floor. I’m confident, though, that your cowardly bully ass will continue to hide behind a keyboard and a user name, wanking away as you lord yourself over everyone else. When are you going to realize that the only person who gives a shit about your self-adoring prowess is you?

 

[leatherback]

I would truly love to have the opportunity to meet you in person, and I sincerely invite you to look me up if you’re ever in my city. I guarantee you that if you ever had the spine and temerity to speak to me face to face the way you do to people on this forum, you would very shortly find yourself on your ass, counting your teeth as you picked them up from the floor. I’m confident, though, that your cowardly bully ass will continue to hide behind a keyboard and a user name, wanking away as you lord yourself over everyone else. When are you going to realize that the only person who gives a shit about your self-adoring prowess is you?

Sorry. Going to proove you wrong here. I for one rather have Smoke's experience on here than your current uncalled-for ad hominem attacks, regardless of whichever way things are supposed to be spelled. He shows trees and how he gets there, and gives people to the point input on why certain things should or should not be done. I have not seen anything remotely near his quality of trees psted by you.