Bonsai worthy?

[BubblePopScott]

What is it about bonsai that there always seems to be drama around advice, this thread a classic example? Is it due to a trend in the type of person drawn to bonsai, of blunt and stubborn personalities? Or do experts tire of answering the same questions 20 times a day, and the newbies can't grasp the basics? I asked the guru at my club about "bonsai worthy" and his view was this any tree can be a bonsai but the experienced bonsai enthusiast has so many trees and not enough time to dedicate to sub optimal trees, so can afford to be extra picky. He lamented on crap trees he has sold or given away which years later are very good. He said it was not that the tree was above his skill to do, but beyond his time limits. His advice to me was just get stuck in and give it a crack, if it works it works, if not you've a lesson.

Now where's my popcorn

 

[0soyoung]

The real question is not whether a tree is bonsai worthy.
The real question is are you are bonsai worthy?

There really is nothing wrong with simply admiring bonsai made and maintained by others.

 

[Cajunrider]

Now where's my popcorn

Oh no no no no! We provide the entertainment. You bring your own popcorn.
If you demand popcorn, are your posts popcorn worthy?

 

[Vance Wood]

There are two conversations in this thread - one has nothing to do with bonsai. I never once gave bonsai advice on this thread.

I didn't make the claim that you were giving bonsai advise on this thread, I did say you were not qualified to say I did not have the right to express my opinion.

 

[Adair M]

I've seen plenty in the wild. Used to live in Arizona. Thing is, although those yamadori are spectacular, they're just not part of my everyday life. I can take them or leave them. Aspiring to own one of those old monsters here in the humid, soggy east is silly. They die here. They can't take the summer humidity. All that deadwood molds and rots, just like the roots beneath it.

Those species, unfortunately, have sucked up all the O2 when it comes to other notable and very useable native material. That's good sure, but there's a big downside to that.

There is so much MORE to native species than just a dozen kinds of western conifers. . The progress with S.E. natives made widely back in the 1990's early 00's like cedar elm, hackberry, and others has stalled. Collectors like Vito Megna and Bill Cody who back in the day dug out pretty awesome cedar elm, oak and other species has been forgotten or discounted in favor of big ol ponderosa and juniper. There were also collectors up North in Canada and New York pulling rugged extremely old arborvitae out of the Niagara escarpment. While every likes old Ponderosa, juniper, etc, they're also not representative of anything east of the Rockies. Heck, Zach Smith is pulling out some interesting, excellent AFFORDABLE AND HARDY species down in La. and Texas.

I hope one of the "names" in the PNW takes note of the oaks and other western deciduous stuff Alvaro is pulling from the high desert. Those trees have similar character, they just don't have needles and bendy branches that can be wired into place...;-)

I won’t disagree with you on that point. Recently there has been a move toward using the old Mussion Olives in California. I have more than my fair share. And a California Oak.

You’re partially right about the western Junipers. About having difficulty with our climate. But there’s ways to mitigate that: grafting Shimpaku foliage goes a long way, as well as putting on root grafts of shimpaku and/or San Jose. This makes the tree better suited for our climate and the foliage is better suited for bonsai as well. But, you’re also right that we don’t have the environmental condition that produce those awesome deadwood trunks. And, I was like you, in that since they didn’t happen naturally around where I live, I didn’t really care that much about them one way or the other. However, since I have been traveling out to California a lot, I’ve seen many more in the past 5 years or so, that I’ve really developed an appreciation for them!

And then sometimes I think we just get tired of the things we have around us, and want the “exotic” stuff because it’s so different! For instance, I can’t stand Procumbens Nana juniper. Plant City Bonsai, where I give lessons, has a “Sea of Junipers”, a field of 30 year old mature Procumbens that people drive from all over to acquire. Everyone in Atlanta who does bonsai has at least one! To me, though, they’re common. They don’t do anything for me. Even the “nice” ones. I see it, and it looks like every one else’s.

Now, that’s my personal preference, I understand that other people love them! And I’ve helped many people style their Procumbens. But, they have no appeal for me.

 

[Myka]

I didn't make the claim that you were giving bonsai advise on this thread, I did say you were not qualified to say I did not have the right to express my opinion.

I didn't say that either. Are we speaking the same language?

 

[Lou T]

From someone new to this bonsai culture, it’s all pretty funny. I see there is certainly a lot of elitism. I wonder if those folks who grew miniature trees in trays way back when would have chuckled at the thought of a conspiracy of westerners brabbling over the confines of a practice striving to capture the rather most chaotic strokes of nature. An architect who begs the question instead, why are you worthy? OP puts their plant in the most humble corner of their yard for 100 years, forgotten amongst the overgrown rye grass and it will still live when we here are dead. Only to be rediscovered perhaps by a great grandchild, striking a fascination for beautiful plants in trays.

 

[Cajunrider]

PS: While they will be just potted plants, I can't help myself. After all these flowers are gone I will prune the trees. They may not be bonsai but by golly they will have ramification

Well. It was a long flowering season. The last of the flower dropped last week. While doing spring cleaning in the yard last weekend, I stared at the roots and realized that as they grow, the trees will choke one another and neither will be healthy. I now have two air layers going. My lady really likes the flowers of this cultivar. The air layer will be collected and planted in the ground later this year.

So for the cost of a dozen of roses, we enjoyed the Camellia for months. It's money well spent already in my book.

 

[Cajunrider]

Well. It was a long flowering season. The last of the flower dropped last week. While doing spring cleaning in the yard last weekend, I stared at the roots and realized that as they grow, the trees will choke one another and neither will be healthy. I now have two air layers going. My lady really likes the flowers of this cultivar. The air layer will be collected and planted in the ground later this year.

So for the cost of a dozen of roses, we enjoyed the Camellia for months. It's money well spent already in my book.

Ground layered. I wonder how long it will take.
PS: Next to the pot are the two contorted Camellia cuttings from Mellow Mullet.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

That should take care of it. Looking forward to seeing how it turns out.

 

[ParkerBoy]

Well, that was interesting. It kind of makes a newbie like me a little afraid to ask any questions.

 

[Mellow Mullet]

Well, that was interesting. It kind of makes a newbie like me a little afraid to ask any questions.

Don't be afraid to ask questions, unless they are about soil, lol. If you do, make sure that you have your hip waders on, there will be a sea of BS to wade through. Enough fertilizer to take care of all of your trees and, probably, your lawn, too. Oh, and speaking of fertilizer, don't ask questions about either......lol

Seriously, there are a lot of people here that are willing to answer with good advice.

 

[ParkerBoy]

Thank you Mellow. I have been lurking and reading here for MONTHS now and I do see a lot of helpful folks. This thread struck me as a bit "off" compared to most things I've read here. I have other interests and belong to a number of forums on those topics. So I know differences of opinion will arise now and then. My main concern right now is finding the proper trees/bushes for my area and a little bit of how to handle them. Wintering will probably involve mulch and snow cover......right now I have over 20 inches of snow on the level. Nothing is going to happen real soon.
I'm glad you mentioned soil. I'm going to use whatever I can obtain locally. So far that includes Orchid Mix, Pearlite, NAPA floor dry, Pine Bark and Granite Chips(I raise a few chickens). I'll try to figure out the mix ratios as I go along. Our native soil is mostly SAND. I live on 15 acres of woods and have many hundreds of acres that friends have already given me the OK to search. My first quest will be to locate Yamadori candidates. And then ask questions BEFORE I proceed.

 

[Mellow Mullet]

Sounds like prime tree hunting ground, unfortunately, I cannot advise of trees for Minnesota, which is like the North Pole to me ( I live in Mobile, AL)! 20" of snow, still? I think I would die.

Maybe start your own thread and see what people who live in your area/climate are doing. I am sure someone will pipe up.

 

[Cajunrider]

I put a ground layer on each of the camellia and fertilized them heavily. They are putting on significant growth. I hope the root development matches the top growth.

 

[Cajunrider]

I put a ground layer on each of the camellia and fertilized them heavily. They are putting on significant growth. I hope the root development matches the top growth.
View attachment 235599

Crazy thought.
With the way I put this ground layer together, if I leave the upper wrap on long enough for the roots to reach the base soil, I am more than half way to getting exposed nebari. Sorting out the old roots vs. new roots, tree A vs. tree B will be a mess. Then again, I consider these bonus trees so I'm game for anything.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I would wait and see what you get. When I have done this type of layering, the upper set of roots was better, much better in radial distribution than the lower, and getting rid of the lower mess really cleaned up a lot of problems. I would not wait too long. You want to separate them before they become a hopelessly tangled mess. Waiting too long will put you back where you started. You potentially can get 3 trees, the right and left trunks, then the cut off stump below, may send up shoots, as essentially a root cutting. So if you want ugly roots, you still will have the old tangled mess, and a fair chance that after the trunks are removed, it will produce a sucker type shoot or two.

Doing the long exposed root stilt walking plants is pretty hit or miss. Most end up looking contrived. I would work toward a conventional nebari, but of course, that is my personal taste.