thumblessprimate1
Masterpiece
On the other hand、I see OP has decided what to do. Enjoy the flowers!
Bonsai worthy?
- Thread starter Cajunrider
- Start date
0soyoung
Imperial Masterpiece
Bye, bye. ?♂.
0soyoung
Imperial Masterpiece
I agree, having tried it. BUT, I think camellia are a lot of fun from cuttings (suckers are especially easy to root).
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
It is not that Camellia are not good as bonsai subjects, that's not the issue, this one presented in the first post is not a good subject. In general Camellia make passiable bonsai if you take the time to find one with a decent trunk among other things.
thumblessprimate1
Masterpiece
Yes. I've seen great examples each time I visit Japan. They also make amazing niwaki for the garden!
shinmai
Chumono
Perhaps we can concede that the techniques and horticultural knowledge derived in the pursuit of conventional bonsai could be useful and beneficial if one chooses to devote attention to a tree that simply appeals to them, whether or not it’s ever going to be an exhibition level tree. The reasons why may be manifold, sentimental attachment springing first to mind.
As one personal example, at a time when I had a serious case of the blues, my wife [who knows little or nothing about classical Bonsai] decided that I needed a gift to lift my spirits. She came home from a garden center with two black pussy willows in five-gallon pots—hardly something I would have explored myself, but once presented with them I saw that they might make interesting projects. One of them might actually become something noteworthy in a couple of years—nice nebari, nice two inch base, good taper and primary branching. And not yet another boxwood, hornbeam, maple, etc.—things everyone else is doing.
Quirky, off the beaten path, an opportunity to learn its requirements to flourish, beautiful growth habit...really, what’s not to like? If anything, it’s more of a challenge—there is a cubic assload of information on the net about keeping pines, junipers, maples...a moron who paid attention could find ample instructions about how to not kill one. But taking the limited info about unconventional early-blooming deciduous trees and extrapolating to a Salix species is certainly a boundary expander.
As one personal example, at a time when I had a serious case of the blues, my wife [who knows little or nothing about classical Bonsai] decided that I needed a gift to lift my spirits. She came home from a garden center with two black pussy willows in five-gallon pots—hardly something I would have explored myself, but once presented with them I saw that they might make interesting projects. One of them might actually become something noteworthy in a couple of years—nice nebari, nice two inch base, good taper and primary branching. And not yet another boxwood, hornbeam, maple, etc.—things everyone else is doing.
Quirky, off the beaten path, an opportunity to learn its requirements to flourish, beautiful growth habit...really, what’s not to like? If anything, it’s more of a challenge—there is a cubic assload of information on the net about keeping pines, junipers, maples...a moron who paid attention could find ample instructions about how to not kill one. But taking the limited info about unconventional early-blooming deciduous trees and extrapolating to a Salix species is certainly a boundary expander.
leatherback
The Treedeemer
{ducking between the flying dirt}Your last comment, meant to hurt (good job nice guy), might be significant if I was a fat person, but I'm not and if you knew me you would realize how funny that last comment is directed at a person like me.
Maybe you read too much into the comment.
Vance has been doing bonsai since WWI, give or take a few decades
. I took his comment as "Keep in mind, some of us has seen all 10 times before; We have earned the right to have an opinion on what is needed to create bonsai, and when to recommend dropping a tree as it is not worth the work in the long run.". I always like to hear from these guys who have been into this for decades. They have made the same mistakes as us rookies in our first decade in bonsai, and come to realize .. You will regret it if you are anything remotely like serious in the hobby.Myka
Sapling
{ducking between the flying dirt}
Maybe you read too much into the comment.
Vance has been doing bonsai since WWI, give or take a few decades
Haha! Oh I know he's been into bonsai for a long time. My comments had absolutely nothing to do with who knows what, or who's right or any of that. I've lurked these forums for about 5 years before I joined. There is SO much "I'm right, you're wrong" on these forums. So much mudslinging, and name-calling which is why I didn't join until I had too many burning questions. Most of the well-established bonsai craftsmen (and women for those sensitive to that) here don't play that game (they're probably too busy tending trees anyway), but there are definitely some that stoop to the arguing back and forth. It ruins a thread when people just keep stating the same thing over again adding a new insult each time thinking they're going to miraculously change the other's mind. I think in the end people need to realize that not everyone is out to achieve the same thing. My business is aquarium servicing, a hobby I've been into for almost 30 years, and the first thing I realized when I started my business years ago was that not everyone is aspiring for perfection, nor the "right" way to do things. I know people that have been in the hobby much longer than myself and never made it past baby steps. Some people have huge budgets, and some people have popcorn budgets, and ALL of those people can enjoy the hobby/craft just as much as the other. I just don't understand all the sandbox fights here.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
This is good and wonderful as far as it goes. However; Camellia are very difficult to grow and keep past the first time they bloom. They are fertilizer hogs and need high acid requirements. As a bonsai they are among the most difficult to keep alive.
Cajunrider
Imperial Masterpiece
Yikes! In years past I was really successful at growing Camellia because I have access to a lot of coffee grind. At my work place, people tend to make really really strong coffee. As a result, I tested the grind to be mildly acidic instead of neutral like usual. Once in a while I get half a bucket of grind and spread it around my Camellia trees and they are happy. I don't know how I would do that to bonsai Camellia.
Smoke
Ignore-Amus
If the owner is the principle viewer why do I see a shitload of trees posted that one are not bonsai and two are not worthy of becoming bonsai. Be the owner and the principle. If you post it here you have given up that right. At that point my right, as well, is to call a spade a spade. Hope that’s not too harsh but you got to think about what you write. Always keep that in mind when you post to a public forum. When you mash the POST button, what you think about your tree matters no more.
Smoke
Ignore-Amus
But.... I bet if all your clients belong to an aquarium forum and they all post pictures. Those that have no budget will be told in pretty short order that they are losers and have crappy tanks and do not know what they are doing.
Compare apples to apples. The only reason you see them is because you clean them. I have not seen them at all so I absolutely have no comment one way or the other. I have done bonsai for a long time and I have trees to post and can compare trees with those that say they can but never show anything. I have no time for big mouth wannabe's. Post um up or shut up. Show me youv'e earned the right to be a big mouth. (not you personally) I don't even know you. But, you seem to have lots to say on how this place should run.
Joe Dupre'
Omono
Well, hoping that something is "not too harsh" and not caring if it's too harsh is quite a different matter. Yes, you most certainly have the right to call a spade a spade, but must you? Saying "It might not be the best material and you may want to look for something more along normal bonsai lines." is much different than "It is worthless and not worth your time.".
And....... "that one are not bonsai and two are not worthy of becoming bonsai " should be at least followed by "but that's my opinion" , IF you wanted to be fair and accurate......................but................
Smoke
Ignore-Amus
Of course, should I be expected to lie? If it’s a piece of shit then that’s what I’ll tell you. If you can’t handle the truth don’t post. The title of this thread asks a question does it not. Your response above sounds like I should give some kind of sugar plum fairy kind of answer. If you think that’s what should be done then sorry life doesn’t work like that.
If you think it’s great say so. Then I know where everyone stands on how to determine bonsai worthiness. That goes a long ways towards explaining what I see around here.
Joe Dupre'
Omono
"should I be expected to lie?" Yes, please! For the sake of common decency among civilized humans, please lie ...... a little. You strike me as the type that would tell someone they had an ugly grandchild. Dang, Man, don't you have any social skills at all? Do you HAVE to say what's on your mind to everyone in all situations? How about .......Bonsai worthy? "Well, probably not. Not really a good candidate because of.... ( insert reasons here). Give it a shot , though. You'll learn something in the process. " Statement of opinion, reasons, helpful encouragement. You know............ common courtesy.
Done.
Done.
At the end of the day, it’s still crappy material, for bonsai
But by all means, find one just like it and waste your time on it, at least the flowers will be pretty.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
The only mud slinging is yours. In the beginning the OP asked for an opinion and that's what they got, an opinion. Most people who ask for an opinion hope to get opinions from someone or some group of someones who are speaking from experience, not someone who floats dead fish for a profession. If you don't wish for an informed opinion don't ask for one.
Smoke
Ignore-Amus
You strike me as a do gooder. I don't have time for do gooders. Its a waste of time. If I got a shitty tree tell me. If I got a good tree, tell me that too. At the end of the day at least I know where I stand. MAGA, I suppose you don't like that either.
I just posted two trees recently that I made from nothing in a few hours each. I have yet to see any big mouth at this forum ever do that. Hell there are people here that have been working on trees for a decade and they still look as shitty as the day they posted them. It is painfully obvious that I do and talk about bonsai on a completely different level than you do. I think we should just agree to disagree. When you do and want to talk about bonsai at that level, then maybe we can agree.
I have a question for you Joe. Bill Valavanis and Walter Pall both post here. I think we can agree that they are bonsai professionals. What you think about my skills is your business. If Walter and Bill came here every day and spoke the truth about all the newbie trees here, gave advice and some snot nosed punk questioned their advice and they spouted off in defense, or maybe acted the way you think I act, how would you feel about them. Would you give them the benefit of the doubt and just sluff it off as crankiness, or some other politically correct thing. Would you give them a pass? Or would you grow tired of their constant want of people to improve, the wish that people would get it and buy some decent material, or maybe hold off posting that crap until enough work had been done to it that it now resembles a bonsai and we can see that you may know some shit.
You and I both know why they don't. They are bonsai professionals and this is a small community. If you make a living doing bonsai, they are forced to tell you your pathetic stick in a pot has a future, your grotesque root system is "not so bad". They have to do that, they have a livelihood to think about. Bad press travels like wildfire. Walter did do that on bonsaiTALK a couple decades ago and he left and quit posting cause all the wannabe's were trying to wag the tail. He told them to pound sand and it wasn't pretty. I know I set up the venue for him and asked him to do it, and judge my contests in which I gave away custom built bonsai stands.
I don't have to hold my tongue.. I can call it the way I see it. I used to teach about 20 or so students a year about bonsai. I am not easy. I don't put up with people that just want to talk and don't work. I don't put up with bringing stupid ass material to a lesson that has no future and I don't put up with someone that wants to wag my tail all the time. But if someone wants to learn how to do this I can teach them, and trust me you don't have to be a professional. I've seen some so called professionals at conventions that can't teach their way out of a paper sack.
Leo in N E Illinois
The Professor
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I like the dark red formal double camellia flowers. Nice.
And this tree can be future propagation stock.
Very nice.
And this tree can be future propagation stock.
Very nice.
Myka
Sapling
Totally agree. That's part of what I was commenting on earlier - people want that sugar plumb fairy stuff with sparkles and sprinkles. If not, they get all bent out of shape and start throwing insults around. If my tree is shit, and I don't realize my tree is shit, I'd like to know! I think all my trees are shit though, so I really don't have anywhere to go but up! Just trying to find good starts in Canada is nearly impossible, and I'm too old to be starting seeds.
I think a lot of the differences here (and elsewhere) are simply down to different generations and different cultures which all come down to different ways of communicating.I wasn't talking about this thread. I quoted the fellow who asked if there was always so much anger/drama/whatever he said. ...and still, you want to try to insult my profession. Why? I never insulted you. You may have been offended, but that was a choice. I'm not offended by your insult, that's my choice. I love my business, and love my work.
