RobertB
Chumono
These look huge!
Bonsai Nut's personal pine entry thread
- Thread starter Bonsai Nut
- Start date
Ruben Bouwmeester
Chumono
Is it a lot colder when you reached the top? I always thought this was a fairy tail: Jack and the Beanstalk. Really nice too see!
Daniel Camilleri
Seedling
LOL I forgot to start soaking them yesterday...
Is the soaking/scarifying process done before the cold stratification or after?
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
Soaking is done before cold stratification. The term scarifying usually refers to a process that includes either physically scratching/scraping the outer seed layer, or using acid to dissolve it. We don't use scarification on pine seeds, but I have used it on other seeds (like Texas Ebony for example).
Daniel Camilleri
Seedling
Understood. Thought the hot water was used to weaken the outer shell of the seeds, thus scarifying it in more simplistic way. Thanks for the explanation.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
No one has mentioned that JBP and Scots Pine can be sown right out of the cone and do not need stratification, JWP is another story as well and most other five needle Pines including Bristle Cone Pines.
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
Yes, actually, hot water is another scarification process that I failed to mention
But in the case of JBP we don't use hot water (or at least I didn't)... just any room temperature water out of the tap. Yes. I'm not wholly convinced that I couldn't have just tossed them in some soil, watered them, and set them outside. In the case of the original BT article, the grower used cold dry stratification (storing the seeds over the winter in a dark, cold, dry place) and then a 3 day soak in the spring prior to planting - discarding the seeds that didn't sink.
The 30 day cold stratification instructions were included in a number of the seed packets I received, so to err on the side of safety, I used that timing. What I should have done is to directly plant some (without cold stratification) and see if there was a difference in germination rates.
Gustavo Martins
Omono
Yes, actually, hot water is another scarification process that I failed to mention
Yes. I'm not wholly convinced that I couldn't have just tossed them in some soil, watered them, and set them outside. In the case of the original BT article, the grower used cold dry stratification (storing the seeds over the winter in a dark, cold, dry place) and then a 3 day soak in the spring prior to planting - discarding the seeds that didn't sink.
The 30 day cold stratification instructions were included in a number of the seed packets I received, so to err on the side of safety, I used that timing. What I should have done is to directly plant some (without cold stratification) and see if there was a difference in germination rates.
I think some of people in the contest did both ways. If my memory does not fail me, I believe it didn’t matter much the cold stratification
dirk hoorelbeke
Omono
The cold stratification gave a more uniform and approximately 3 days earlier start. Having a uniform batch makes seedling cutting easier. After a month or 3 there is not much difference.
Kendo
Mame
If we take the candles to 2 on top, is better at this point. Some I see to many. Maybe spring you put the basket. He will grow fast now.
Thank you, Thank you.
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
Did my first wiring to add some character to the lower trunks. This is a half-full tray of 9. I have three more trays of 18 and one more tray of 9, for a total of 72 one-year cuttings. I am also going to wire my non-cuttings that I saved... but interestingly they do not look as healthy or robust as the cuttings. I am assuming it is a function of transplanting the cuttings into better media when I cut them... versus the other seedlings spent the summer in the propagation flats until I transplanted them in the Fall.
kingsville grower
Yamadori
That looks nice!
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
Thank you! And thank you for posting all of your cool experiments! I am always looking forward to your next update and follow them avidly.
I am definitely shooting for a 6 year time horizon on these guys and trying to guess how much development I can get in 6 years... which is why the extreme low bends. I did have a couple that, for one reason or other, were bursting with low buds, so I kept them for formal uprights. I am kicking myself for not putting these guys back in a cold frame this winter... we have had record cold here in SoCal and I have been asleep at the wheel.
I had the opportunity to talk to my buddy Ed Clark from Round Valley Nursery at the Bonsaiathon a couple of weeks ago. He had some shohin black pine pre-bonsai that he had been scarring with wire - never removing it but letting it embed and eventually get overgrown by the bark. He had good results with increasing trunk caliper, but he was joking about the only way to get good results was to use the exact opposite of neat bonsai wiring... too tight, irregular spacing, crossing wires, because otherwise it looks too regular almost like a barber pole.
Colorado
Masterpiece
Wonderful thread. Can you please discuss your process for the cuttings?
How long (if at all) do you allow the cutting to “rest” before placing it into the potting medium? Did you use rooting hormone? Any tips for doing this? Or is it as simple as chop the cutting and just put it in the medium?
Thanks!
Dorky_gearhead
Shohin
Hit up the search option. The information is well documented.
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
(1) Using a new razor blade, I pruned the seedlings and tossed them in a bowl of water.
(2) I used Dip n Grow liquid rooting hormone. Not sure it is necessary, but that is what I did.
(3) I had already prepared my seedling flats with a 100% pumice drainage layer, and then pumice, sifted pine bark, and azalea mix upper layer. Upper layer is about 50% organic, though chunky. I planted the cuttings immediately (within a half hour of cutting them - it just took a while to do the labor x90 seedlings).
(4) The cold frame helped to keep the seedlings warm and humid. They also protected from critters. The last time I tried pine seedlings, they were devastated at an early age by birds or squirrels/rats.
(5) Seedlings have been outside in full sun / the elements since about July, 2018.
(6) If I did it again, I would have moved them back into the cold frame in December. This year we had such a mild December and January, I didn't think it would make a difference. February was the coldest month we have had since I moved here 23 years ago.
I am now down to 72 seedling cuttings... as well as a bunch of other seedlings I didn't cut. I lost 20% of my cuttings to stress / environmental causes over the course of the first year.
Last edited:
bonhe
Masterpiece
Bonsai Nut, post: 631765, member: 3"]Did my first wiring to add some character to the lower trunks. This is a half-full tray of 9. I have three more trays of 18 and one more tray of 9, for a total of 72 one-year cuttings.
They looks healthy!
I would do more heavy bend and twist because when the trees are getting bigger, the heavy bend will be less. Remember to bend the trunk clockwise and counterclockwise alternatively to create the natural twist later on; otherwise, the trunk will look like the spring!
I am also going to wire my non-cuttings that I saved... but interestingly they do not look as healthy or robust as the cuttings. I am assuming it is a function of transplanting the cuttings into better media when I cut them... versus the other seedlings spent the summer in the propagation flats until I transplanted them in the Fall.
Yes, I think so.
that he had been scarring with wire - never removing it but letting it embed and eventually get overgrown by the bark. He had good results with increasing trunk caliper,
It is truth!
but he was joking about the only way to get good results was to use the exact opposite of neat bonsai wiring... too tight, irregular spacing, crossing wires, because otherwise it looks too regular almost like a barber pole
I don't think he was joking! That was what I did for my JBP and KBP seedlings.
Thụ Thoại
They looks healthy!
I would do more heavy bend and twist because when the trees are getting bigger, the heavy bend will be less. Remember to bend the trunk clockwise and counterclockwise alternatively to create the natural twist later on; otherwise, the trunk will look like the spring!
I am also going to wire my non-cuttings that I saved... but interestingly they do not look as healthy or robust as the cuttings. I am assuming it is a function of transplanting the cuttings into better media when I cut them... versus the other seedlings spent the summer in the propagation flats until I transplanted them in the Fall.
Yes, I think so.
that he had been scarring with wire - never removing it but letting it embed and eventually get overgrown by the bark. He had good results with increasing trunk caliper,
It is truth!
but he was joking about the only way to get good results was to use the exact opposite of neat bonsai wiring... too tight, irregular spacing, crossing wires, because otherwise it looks too regular almost like a barber pole
I don't think he was joking!
That was what I did for my JBP and KBP seedlings.Thụ Thoại
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
Round Two. These are pine seedlings I didn't cut. I transplanted them last fall, and decided today that I might as well wire 'em up if I was going to keep them. I have 40 of these that I kept - the rest I tossed because I just had too many. The 40 are now in two Anderson flats and one pond basket. They don't look nearly as nice as the cuttings... but it may not be a fair comparison because the cuttings were provided with better care while these were more or less ignored.
A little wiggle for character. I tried to be as random as possible so the lower trunks would all look a little different.
A little wiggle for character. I tried to be as random as possible so the lower trunks would all look a little different.
Similar threads
