Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
It's not you - it's the rip-off artists who came before you.
Bonsai auctions...Korean Hornbeam
- Thread starter Cadillactaste
- Start date
It's not you - it's the rip-off artists who came before you.
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
Hey Beng, just to confirm since you live in LA, what are your growing conditions? Do you have this under shade cloth? I don't see any crispy leaf edges.
Mike 257
Sapling
Eric Group
Masterpiece
What size are the items you are buying? It can cost way more than that to ship trees. $28 is not expensive at all, especially for something going half way across the country! Most people work with Priority flat rate boxes when possible to standardize the cost and save time... but for trees that won't fit, I have had to charge $60, 70, 80+ just for shipping large trees!
JudyB
Queen of the Nuts
I have to agree with Eric, most people don't make any money on shipping, most charge actual cost. And then they have to spend money on peanuts and boxes and other shipping materials out of pocket. I've shipped lots of trees and pots, and can tell you that $28 is not a big number these days.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
Sorry, but that's funny. I drove to Texas from Va. to escape having to pay $200 or (probably) more in shipping for a largish oak pre-bonsai. Actually, I drove to Texas for other reasons, but knew I could bring the tree back with me. The shipper said he was dreading having to box the tree up and ship it, because it would have required construction of a specially shaped box --oversize because the tree is a lot wider than it is tall. It's also 40 lbs or so.
This example isn't unusual in bonsai shipping, especially with largish trees over 12" tall and over 10 lbs. Many trees can't just be plunked into a standard sized box and dropped at the Post Office. Back in the 90's I had a couple of BIG trees specially shipped via air freight. Had to pick them up at the airport, just like visiting relatives. Shipping was something like $200 each because of the bulk and weight.
Mike 257
Sapling
Im just having trouble spending $28+ on a tree that cost $30- $40 dollars
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
I feel your pain Mike, but think about it from the perspective of the seller... How much does the box cost? The packaging materials? The tape, etc. The time to label everything and check addresses. Then you have to drive to the UPS or Post Office (time and gas and car depreciation). I hate shipping anything because it is almost always a money-losing proposition.
The last time I shipped someone a tree it cost me over $100... Even a moderately sized tree takes up a big box - and you don't want to break anything.
Don Blackmond
Omono
To be fair, you need to consider the total cost. Is your $30-$40 tree worth the $58 to $68 you're paying for it. Stop focusing on the shipping cost. If no, then don't buy it. If yes, then buy it and enjoy your new tree.
I've sold and shipped thousands of trees and can testify that sellers don't make a profit on shipping costs.
My last piece of advice is this: if $28 is a critical sum of money to you, then consider a different hobby. You will spend that amount many times over on stuff less appealing than shipping costs.
I've sold and shipped thousands of trees and can testify that sellers don't make a profit on shipping costs.
My last piece of advice is this: if $28 is a critical sum of money to you, then consider a different hobby. You will spend that amount many times over on stuff less appealing than shipping costs.
Eric Group
Masterpiece
At one point in my first response I was literally typing the last paragraph you posted and went back and deleted it, didnt want to seem like I was encouraging someone not to get into Bonsai and I feel the pain of having been unable to afford this hobby at times! Especially when first starting out! The good news is- starting out with little money generally means you go through learning pains on material you didn't drop a mortgage payment to buy!
Redwood Ryan
Masterpiece
I just spent $90 to ship a Ficus from Florida to Virginia. It hurts, but then you run out of money and it's no longer an issue until next payday.
Giga
Masterpiece
Why not just collect things in spring - problem solved?
Eric Group
Masterpiece
Good idea! Go right out next Spring and find me one of these,
These,
And while you are at it, I really want add something like:
To my collection!
Please let me know where said trees are located!
Giga
Masterpiece
You seem to have a chip on your shoulder but if money is an issue, like was said, you can still do bonsai and collect good stuff like my massive ume, or bald cypress, or american beech ( all collected this year locally)
Don't need to get hung up on species when the world of bonsai is massive and lots of ways to skin a cat
Don't need to get hung up on species when the world of bonsai is massive and lots of ways to skin a cat
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
As Don pointed out, the tree DOESN'T cost $30-$40. It costs $58-$68...The shipping is the cost of doing business on the Internet. Amazon has spoiled people with shipping. They are big enough to get massive bulk discounts on just about everything they sell and/or ship. Independent sellers who deal in small or one-off quantities don't have that luxury.
I sold some pretty nice pots online recently after I couldn't sell them locally. Decent packing and shipping added as much as $40 to the price tag on some of them. However, some were worth over $100, so I wasn't going to take chances on having them arrive busted into big expensive shards...
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rockm
Spuds Moyogi
but the guy is after KOREAN hornbeam, which you're not going to find in the woods. It's also vastly superior to native hornbeam as bonsai.
Eric Group
Masterpiece
I don't have a chip in my shoulder, and I do collect trees every year! I am taking off work this coming Monday to go to the Swamp looking for BC and Water Elm as a matter of fact...
My point is that collecting in the states leaves you very limited choices of suitable species for what we do, and some locales will have more than other obviously. On top of that, finding suitable material that is of a suitable size with decent movement... can be down right impossible at times! I am a variety kind of guy personally- I like to think of myself as both a collector and to some degree an artist. I like the big wedge shaped BC we get out of the swamps, but I also like Shohin Azaleas- Or Chuhin sized informal upright JM, Trident Maples... Maybe a well styled twisted old Shimpaku or JBP with a honker of a trunk and some deeply plated bark... you cannot find any of those trees growing indigenously in the US. You may stumble across one every now and then in someone's YARD, but not naturally occurring in the wild.
Collecting is a fun, inexpensive way to get material, but for people looking for stuff not available in the woods beside their house- ordering online is a great opportunity and one that has only really started to become more popular in recent years.
Giga
Masterpiece
I don't see how it's vastly better - American hornbeam are collectible(free), Strong growers, leaves reduce to very small. It may be just me but I like the idea of putting my thumbprint from the very beginning- don't have current pics of these as they been styled
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
Have had both--for years...Yeah, Carpinus Koreana is a lot better than American hornbeam for bonsai. Korean H Leaves reduce substantially more--as in less than a half inch or even more in the right conditions, twigging is phenomenal and a lot tighter than American. Korean H. will also bud back down old trunks very readily. All these are traits that American hornbeam is iffy on or refuses to do.
Giga
Masterpiece
I agree and disagree with that. I also do understand that sometime you fall in love with a species and "have" to have it. I have found great tree's in my area, and that have great movement. Basically, all I'm saying if you stapped on cash there is always a way to get involved in this hobby and still have great material, Like my 28 cents crabapple from Home depot
I guess we've had different experience as I found that they perform just as good it not better, in all those terms. Plus as Ryan neil says we need to get more involved in native species, also the guy can get a hornbeam, while he saves for a Korean one.
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