Bonsai auctions and “imported” trees. Legal or not?

[Bonsaiforlife]

Lately on the Facebook bonsai auctions there have been a lot of really nice trees up for auction that look like recent Japanese imports. What are the rules of selling trees that have recently been imported? Do we care about import laws? Do we care if a tree we buy was legally imported? Or just assume if they are for sale on there then they legally made it to the US. What is morally right? I have legally imported bareroot azaleas before and there is paperwork to prove it’s legal. Does providing a place for people to sell trees that are illegally imported provide a source for people to sell stolen trees? How do you know if one is stolen? Seems like an issue that may need some thought.

 

[SilenceDogwood]

It seems like a big problem, Facebook auctions is becoming a home for questionable bonsai.

 

[milehigh_7]

Lately on the Facebook bonsai auctions there have been a lot of really nice trees up for auction that look like recent Japanese imports. What are the rules of selling trees that have recently been imported? Do we care about import laws? Do we care if a tree we buy was legally imported? Or just assume if they are for sale on there then they legally made it to the US. What is morally right? I have legally imported bareroot azaleas before and there is paperwork to prove it’s legal. Does providing a place for people to sell trees that are illegally imported provide a source for people to sell stolen trees? How do you know if one is stolen? Seems like an issue that may need some thought.

There are a few that try it. They are eventually found out and banned. It's been a problem for years.

 

[milehigh_7]

Do you know who is a ruthless hunter of bonsai scammers and cheats? @Cadillactaste LOL

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Ask for a phytosanitary report, all legally imported plants should have one.
If you, for some reason, get into posession of an illegally imported tree.. I think it's good citizenship to isolate it, cover it in mosquito mesh, and treat it regularly with systemics for at least 6 months. There are butterfly cages out there that are made out of mosquito mesh, and they're not expensive.

It's hard to tell, and even harder to prove that a tree is stolen or illegally imported. But do try reverse image searches like google lens.
Unfortunately, websites like facebook are not indexed in those queries. So if your tree gets stolen, do post it publicly on various websites! If you only post that to facebook, you will not show up in reverse image searches.
If you suspect you have a stolen tree: Log that search effort, make a report on how much effort you put in to trying to find out more. Email that to yourself so it's timestamped. If the cops ever show up, you at least have plausible deniability. I think nobody here would want to deal in stolen goods, but there's only so much you can do if you have any suspicions.

Facebook and marketplaces and telegram channels have been a cesspool of illegal activities, so maybe it's better to stay away from those all together. If you don't look at them, there's no seduction to buy them.

 

[Cadillactaste]

Do you know who is a ruthless hunter of bonsai scammers and cheats? @Cadillactaste LOL

plaster their name everywhere too. To bring attention. I'm constantly warning people about why we choose to buy trees from a reputable source.

 

[rockm]

Lately on the Facebook bonsai auctions there have been a lot of really nice trees up for auction that look like recent Japanese imports. What are the rules of selling trees that have recently been imported? Do we care about import laws? Do we care if a tree we buy was legally imported? Or just assume if they are for sale on there then they legally made it to the US. What is morally right? I have legally imported bareroot azaleas before and there is paperwork to prove it’s legal. Does providing a place for people to sell trees that are illegally imported provide a source for people to sell stolen trees? How do you know if one is stolen? Seems like an issue that may need some thought.

There's no thought needed. If you know someone is selling illegally imported trees, or stolen bonsai, yeah it's worth reporting to police. It's pretty simple. There's no moral code to sort through here. There's just do the right thing. Ignoring either hurts the bonsai community. Illegally imported trees hurt honest sellers who have done the due-diligence and observe the law. Selling stolen trees is simply a moral disgrace and obviously hurts the people who may have put decades of work into a tree.

If you know of questionable sellers online ask if the person if you can see the paperwork, or explain the import process and facilities they used. If they can't, or won't -red flag. Also wonder if the seller is actually selling trees, or simply running a scam to get money from people--the con of offering something rare and unavailable to people online then getting them to send money and then not send the product is a classic scam.

 

[rockm]

FWIW, there are no restrictions in selling legally imported trees. If the seller has the paperwork, they can sell what they have. The paperwork proves they've met the quarantine and phytosanitary requirements.

 

[johng]

If you notice it is mainly small trees! Easily imported on the sly. To my knowledge illegal importing has been occurring for decades. I also believe more than a few have been caught and fined... I suspect there is very little that can be done about it. I am kind of ambivalent about it.... Obviously there are some risks of importing problem pests and diseases but generally who is harmed??

IF we would grow and develop better material locally there would be a lot less reason for folks to do it.

 

[ShimpakuBonsai]

I don't think there are large numbers of illegally imported bonsai trees from Japan.
For myself I don't worry about it to be honest.

 

[MMJNICE]

There are a few that try it. They are eventually found out and banned. It's been a problem for years.

Seems like you can get banned if one person starts complaining about a 20 dollar tree. Oddly Specific right? Personal experience smh.. being banned for forgetting to say you have a 20 dollar reserve is a bit extreme but selling Illegally gained japanese bonsai material is look the other way.

 

[Srt8madness]

I'm curious how a tree "looks" like a recent Japanese import vs one that went through quarantine??

 

[Paradox]

I agree with @rockm and others saying the same.

I won't support anyone breaking the law....period. Plenty of legal trees around to choose from.

 

[Wood]

I'm curious how a tree "looks" like a recent Japanese import vs one that went through quarantine??

the price tag?

 

[dbonsaiw]

plaster their name everywhere too. To bring attention.

I second that. These idiots hurt us and the reputable sellers.

 

[August44]

It seems like a big problem, Facebook auctions is becoming a home for questionable bonsai.

Seriously? Do you have any proof of that serious allegation sir?

 

[Nybonsai12]

Those trees we all see on FB are super suspicious but I suspect nobody has actual proof of anything foul. It is odd how a sudden collection of great trees are for sale from what appears to be one or two people.

9k buy it now for a very nicely developed j. White pine recently, well ramified chojubai. Show ready shohin of varieties that are not all that common in the US. New trees Week after week…Come on…

Do I want one? Hell yes! Would I buy what I suspect is an illegal import? Hell no!( not that it matters I don’t have 9k to blow on a tree).

 

[August44]

the price tag?

Would you be more specific with that pls? Thank you.

 

[NaoTK]

Those FB trees are nice, but not Japan nice. They could be legitimately purchased in Japan very affordably then sold for 10x in the US.
If folks are illegally importing they will eventually be caught and have their shipment burned and their licenses revoked.

I just hate scabs and resellers coming to bonsai for profit.

 

[dbonsaiw]

I’m not in support of breaking the law with illegal imports, but that offends me much less than other bonsai crimes - like stealing people’s bonsai or online scams. If customs isn’t doing its job and the trees are already here……..