Bonsai auctions and “imported” trees. Legal or not?

[Wood]

If customs isn’t doing its job and the trees are already here……..

I'm on board with it being less offensive than other things, but I really really don't want to be even tangentially related to releasing the next dutch elm disease or spotted lanternfly in the US

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Snitches get stitches

 

[SilenceDogwood]

Snitches get stitches

But people who illegally import also get massive fines, risk of jail-time, and their collections incinerated by the USDA. Not including hurting local bonsai businesses.

Hopefully the moderators of Facebook auctions can sort this out, someone should probably report it to them. It must be hard to come up with evidence of them being illegal imports even though it's very obvious they're illegal to those with experience of the bonsai market.

 

[Srt8madness]

But people who illegally import also get massive fines, risk of jail-time, and their collections incinerated by the USDA. Not including hurting local bonsai businesses.

Hopefully the moderators of Facebook auctions can sort this out, someone should probably report it to them. It must be hard to come up with evidence of them being illegal imports even though it's very obvious they're illegal to those with experience of the bonsai market.

What makes it obvious?

 

[Nybonsai12]

Snitches get stitches

 

[RJG2]

What makes it obvious?

This.

I know it's tough, but Wigert's has been importing a ton lately. Nothing to say others aren't as well. There's also no reason they couldn't be from a country other than Japan.

 

[rodeolthr]

The US is a major recipient of trees, flowers, and plants from many countries in Asia..... all of them arriving with appropriate documentation through the USDA. It is quite an assumption that those on FB are somehow illegal or illegally imported, no matter how nice they appear.

 

[ShimpakuBonsai]

I think there are more illegally collected trees (no permission to collect) for sale than there are illegally imported trees for sale.

 

[chicago1980]

What indicates these are illegal shipped in trees and or stolen?

 

[Srt8madness]

What indicates these are illegal shipped in trees and or stolen?

Nice trees that you can't afford, evidently.

 

[August44]

But people who illegally import also get massive fines, risk of jail-time, and their collections incinerated by the USDA. Not including hurting local bonsai businesses.

Hopefully the moderators of Facebook auctions can sort this out, someone should probably report it to them. It must be hard to come up with evidence of them being illegal imports even though it's very obvious they're illegal to those with experience of the bonsai market.

I think there are people here throwing a lot of BS in the air with absolutely no proof that anything illegal is being done. Face book auctions have been mentioned just because some nice, expensive trees have been showing up. Then Wigerts is mentioned. The folks that run Facebook auctions are definitely aware of the possibility of illegally imported trees on their site and have mentioned penalties etc it in numerous places. They keep their eyes open and confront it if they are suspicious. They do their best I think. I can't believe that Wigerts would intentionally get mixed up even close to getting involved with Illegally imported trees. If you do not have absolute proof of this going on, I think you need to zip thy lips before you get a liability suit.

 

[rockm]

I think there are people here throwing a lot of BS in the air with absolutely no proof that anything illegal is being done. Face book auctions have been mentioned just because some nice, expensive trees have been showing up. Then Wigerts is mentioned. The folks that run Facebook auctions are definitely aware of the possibility of illegally imported trees on their site and have mentioned penalties etc it in numerous places. They keep their eyes open and confront it if they are suspicious. They do their best I think. I can't believe that Wigerts would intentionally get mixed up even close to getting involved with Illegally imported trees. If you do not have absolute proof of this going on, I think you need to zip thy lips before you get a liability suit.

it would help if someone posted a link/pic to one of the trees in question. I highly doubt Wigerts (if that's who's allegedly doing this) would be involved with such a thing.

FWIW, excellent, legally imported trees are around. I know the Kennett Collection has been a source for those over the years, as they import extremely high quality trees and sometimes sell the off in surplus sales (surplus being a relative term, as they ain't cheap).

 

[Bonsai Nut]

I can't believe that Wigerts would intentionally get mixed up even close to getting involved with Illegally imported trees. If you do not have absolute proof of this going on, I think you need to zip thy lips

Also consider for a moment... if you are a reputable bonsai nursery, and you say you are selling imported trees, it would be pretty foolish to do so without the appropriate approvals. I can't speak to Florida, but here in NC if you have a retail nursery license, you have annual inspections. You can lose your license if you do something stupid - so why would you do so? In order to move enough trees to make it worth your while, you have to be bringing in quite a number at a time. It is not like sneaking a mame into your carry-on (which I wouldn't recommend you do, regardless).

 

[RJG2]

I think there are people here throwing a lot of BS in the air with absolutely no proof that anything illegal is being done. Face book auctions have been mentioned just because some nice, expensive trees have been showing up. Then Wigerts is mentioned. The folks that run Facebook auctions are definitely aware of the possibility of illegally imported trees on their site and have mentioned penalties etc it in numerous places. They keep their eyes open and confront it if they are suspicious. They do their best I think. I can't believe that Wigerts would intentionally get mixed up even close to getting involved with Illegally imported trees. If you do not have absolute proof of this going on, I think you need to zip thy lips before you get a liability suit.

I mentioned Wigert's as legally importing, as an example of why I thought this thread was making too many assumptions. Meaning that if the trees the OP is talking about are imported, what reasons do they have for assuming they are being done so illegally?...

 

[SWfloirda]

These threads generate so much controversy. Meanwhile the OP is never heard from again.

 

[KikurageOtomo]

These threads generate so much controversy. Meanwhile the OP is never heard from again.

I can understand the suspicion, the sheer magnitude of really nice material being listed has shot up compared to the last several years I've been in the group. I have yet to see anybody start hurling any claims at particular individuals so I fail to see how civil action would even be in question as somebody else suggested. Ultimately I think lodging a witch hunt is foolish and it sounds as if the administration has dealt with things of that nature in the past, so I'd hope they're vigilant regarding it. I think OP said what a few people have been thinking, probably not much else to be said about the matter.

 

[Glaucus]

That's because a whole bunch of bonsai nurseries in Japan are set up to export to the EU and NA.
People keep perpetuating the myth that it is almost impossible to import bonsai to the US. Or that they need to be quarantined for years.

Imported trees are almost certainly legally imported. It is probably much harder to illegally import bonsai than to do it legally.

 

[pandacular]

I can understand the suspicion, the sheer magnitude of really nice material being listed has shot up compared to the last several years I've been in the group. I have yet to see anybody start hurling any claims at particular individuals so I fail to see how civil action would even be in question as somebody else suggested. Ultimately I think lodging a witch hunt is foolish and it sounds as if the administration has dealt with things of that nature in the past, so I'd hope they're vigilant regarding it. I think OP said what a few people have been thinking, probably not much else to be said about the matter.

Couldn’t an influx in imports being listed for sale simply reflect that there was an influx of imports 2-3 years ago, and those trees are now leaving quarantine and being readied for sale? There was a massive spike in bonsai’s popularity in the states around that time, so I think Occam’s razor cuts sharply here.

 

[August44]

That's because a whole bunch of bonsai nurseries in Japan are set up to export to the EU and NA.
People keep perpetuating the myth that it is almost impossible to import bonsai to the US. Or that they need to be quarantined for years.

Imported trees are almost certainly legally imported. It is probably much harder to illegally import bonsai than to do it legally.

"People keep perpetuating the myth that it is almost impossible to import bonsai to the US. Or that they need to be quarantined for years." Would you mind explaining to us what the procedure is with exporting from China/Japan to the USA?

 

[Glaucus]

"People keep perpetuating the myth that it is almost impossible to import bonsai to the US. Or that they need to be quarantined for years." Would you mind explaining to us what the procedure is with exporting from China/Japan to the USA?

You need to get a permit from USDA. which is free but requires some paperwork. Then you need to buy a tree from a nursery in Japan set up to export to the US. This includes the tree having a valid phytosanitary certificate for the US.
Then you need them to air mail it to your USDA point of entry. Once there, you can just pick them up.

For details, you need to contact USDA.