Bonsai and Art A continuation of What defines a Good Bonsai from the Also Rans....

[sorce]

And!

You managed to get that 3rd display in front of the perfect veining in the marble!

It is very complimentary!

A different location could have ruined that display!

Sorce

 

[Bolero]

I Lifted and Paraphrased this description of Art from the Internet.....

"The expression and application of human creative skill and imagination to be appreciated for its beauty and emotional power"

and I think Adair's Pine fits this description...He brings it all together, Pot, Moss GC, Trunk, Branching, and Shape or Style...

I don't think it is "World Class" but it is definitely Artful.

and I suspect that most BNutters here have an Artful Tree or two in their collections.

 

[Anthony]

When I look at Sifu's images all I see is his tree.
When I look at the painting all I see is the image.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[sorce]

What do you think of the frame?

look at the painting

If I walked into a condo and saw that frame....I would not like it.

If I walked into an old Victorian, it would be more acceptable.

Same as chrome trees are cool, but unacceptable in a traditional show setting.

Sorce

 

[Anthony]

Sorce,

paintings are not wall decorations they are ------------------ for---------- contemplation.

Bonsai are not wall decoration [ as seen in 70's Kung Fu movies - Carter Wong etc. if unknown to you, see Youtube for Free Chinese movies
when the Chinese looked Chinese and not like European wannabes. chuckle ]

Bonsai are for inspiring Great Ideas ----------- this exhibition nonsense will go nowhere as the trees outgrow the designs forever.

Try not to get caught up in all that decorating nonsense, and then realise you have a home fulla thingees, with no resale value.

We can presently purchase, all those stand shapes in HDF, expertly painted to look expensive. Scrolls that are modified prints and
with human touches to make them look good, and so on.
A stand from the 60's / 70's cost about 800 US $, and is wood specific, we have as I used to deal in antiques. That's a small stand
by the way.

Today K uses old wooden sushi "plates" as stands if not a white papered box if at all. For the lift for mame'.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

If I walked into a condo and saw that frame....I would not like it.
If I walked into an old Victorian, it would be more acceptable.
Sorce

Right on; it's from the heart of Victorian Era society. Now, here's the deal, to help exemplify @Bolero definition:
"The expression and application of human creative skill and imagination to be appreciated for its beauty and emotional power"
So in the right setting, a big loud gold frame is acceptable. Just like the right pot. How about some Art Appreciation?

Cool story, if not a bit morbid: Frederick Church Did a series of paintings of young women with big cats. The model for this painting is Evelyn Nesbit. The frame was made by Stanford White; a renowned architect who helped remodel the White House, designed the triumphal arch at Washington Square, and made picture frames. He was also indicted for sexually assaulting a young Evelyn Nesbit while she slept. Ms. Nesbit's husband found him in a dinner theater in NYC in 1905 and very publicly put a couple bullets in his head. It was even made into a movie, and dubbed the "Trial of the Century", until O.J. overtook the title 90 years later.
How ironic is it that he framed this painting? Does that increase your appreciation for the composition? It did for me!

I don't think it is "World Class" but it is definitely Artful..

What's the difference? What would it take to get from artful to world class? Be specific. What could Adair do to this composition?

My thoughts:
Is it the pot? He's shown it in an antique Chinese container and a contemporary Japanese container. Few can tell one from the other. Those who can, will appreciate the rarity and value of the antique. Kinda like the frame above being worth 10x the painting it contains.

Is it the moss? Anyone can moss up a tree. It's almost an afterthought to many who have done it for years. There are tricks to employ, but they're simple.

Should he add a couple rocks to the soil? No. The tree has 2 significant flaws, and no quality of container or application of moss can make the trunk have better taper, or make the primary branches emerge anywhere else than from the back. Over time, branching will age gracefully, and the base will swell to help reduce the stovepipe appearance. Bark will continue to improve, and the needles' size can stay small, so it will impress crowds because it is a very nice JBP bonsai.

 

[Anthony]

Here is a painting by Lord Leighton - Nanna Risi

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-C7pTkzpF-Rk/TZSRRdyFt6I/AAAAAAAAAE0/fMOnD_2foyk/s1600/DSC00492.JPG

seriously do you see a frame and do you need a tale to go with the image ?

Great Art speaks for itself.

https://dupuich.smugmug.com/Bonsai/...hibit/i-CJjCb7p/0/S/20160312-8-untitled-S.jpg

Do you see the pot ?
Does it need any extras ?
Good Day
Anthony

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

seriously do you see a frame and do you need a tale to go with the image ? Yes & no. But who doesn't like a good story?
Great Art speaks for itself. Yes.
Do you see the pot ? Yes. Great pot, nice tree, bad combo.
Does it need any extras ? No.
Good Day Always
Anthony

Bonsai is a compound word, "bon" is tree, "sai" is tray. The container matters if you are actually looking at the composition as an art form. When people take a photo of a tree, and show it here or in picture books, they include the pot. It is part of the composition. It helps tell the story. Some people may not "get it", ok; but I do, so it matters.

 

[Vance Wood]

Bonsai is a compound word, "bon" is tree, "sai" is tray. The container matters if you are actually looking at the composition as an art form. When people take a photo of a tree, and show it here or in picture books, they include the pot. It is part of the composition. It helps tell the story. Some people may not "get it", ok; but I do, so it matters.

However this does demonstrate the problem as I mentioned in a previous post, #12 to be percise, that the world class bonsai is only an achievement obtainable by the numbers of who likes the tree. You can set down a bunch of rules and parameters, and conditions, and a whole host of things that are human judgements on the subject. I'm not saying these things are wrong I am saying that this is how a world class tree is recognized. Unless it possesses some sort of magical power and levitates above the table and has the ability to strike dead those who do not like it, all of this is human judgement nothing more. So--it is possible to achieve world status with a tree as long as you know the four Ws;--- what to kiss, whose to kiss, where to kiss it and when to kiss it. Sorry but that is the truth of the matter most of the time.

You can try to compare music and graphic arts to bonsai but the compaisons do not stand up most of the time except in the four W's.

 

[William N. Valavanis]

Sorry, you guys have the incorrect translation for the word Bonsai.

Bon means shallow tray

Sai means to plant into

There is no mention of the word TREE anywhere. Now, the commonly used translation is "tree in a pot", but it is wrong, but perhaps good enough for the public who can't tell which is the tree and which is the pot. But, you learned people should know the correct wording.....

Bill

 

[Vance Wood]

Sorry, you guys have the incorrect translation for the word Bonsai.

Bon means shallow tray

Sai means to plant into

There is no mention of the word TREE anywhere. Now, the commonly used translation is "tree in a pot", but it is wrong, but perhaps good enough for the public who can't tell which is the tree and which is the pot. But, you learned people should know the correct wording.....

Bill

Thank you for clearing that up. I have heard so many misinterpretations of that word I have had misgivings as to our use of it. I know you have spent more time in Japan, and met with more Japanese Masters than most of us are aware even exist that you would know this. You are a funny man. I agree and love this comment: good enough for the public who can't tell which is the tree and which is the pot. This is brilliant and the source of the Mallsai.

 

[my nellie]

... ...but it is wrong, but perhaps good enough for the public who can't tell which is the tree and which is the pot... ...

Ι am taking this opportunity to kindly ask Mr. Valavanis' comment -if any- on the subject which the original poster has put into discussion.
Thank you in advance!

 

[milehigh_7]

Sorry, you guys have the incorrect translation for the word Bonsai.

Bon means shallow tray

Sai means to plant into

There is no mention of the word TREE anywhere. Now, the commonly used translation is "tree in a pot", but it is wrong, but perhaps good enough for the public who can't tell which is the tree and which is the pot. But, you learned people should know the correct wording.....

Bill

Having a graduate degree dealing with ancient languages, nothing is more irritating than folks making up their own mind what words mean. I will confess I previously thought what Brian stated that it was '"bon" is tree, "sai" is tray' was the correct translation. Bill's clarification even strengthens Brian's point of view that the container matters. What we don't know, and I suspect it is the case, is that the characters used as a phrase are an idiom for the composition. As is the case with idioms we can't define them without cultural context.

My point is this, we don't get the luxury of defining things as we see fit. That includes the word "bonsai". It means what it means regardless of our opinion of what it means. That is the problem with the world these days. One of the world's most respected linguistic scholars has this to say, "Something can never mean what it never meant." -- Gordon Fee

 

[Vance Wood]

I can't speak for Bill but I can tell you this: It is my understanding that in Japan they have a jury of judges not just one exalted all knowing, all seeing, omnipotent bonsai master. It would seem no body is that good so the have a method of judging that involves a point system I believe. That is my understanding of the process.

 

[Bolero]

BVF: How ironic is it that he framed this painting? Does that increase your appreciation for the composition? It did for me!

NO, the Frame is wrong no matter what, it overpowers the Painting to the Extreme and just does not work...totally out of scale to the Painting, Sorry...

What would it take to get from artful to world class? Be specific. What could Adair do to this composition?

There are holes in the Foliage, the Left side of the Foliage is out of balance to the Right side...
The Right side of the tree Foliage is in perfect Symmetry, the Left side is not.

There is a foliage gap in front of the Trunk at 6 O'clock...

Otherwise a show winner for sure...

 

[my nellie]

... ... What would it take to get from artful to world class? Be specific. What could Adair do to this composition?
There are holes... ... the Left side of the Foliage is... ... The Right side is... ... the Left side is not... ... There is a foliage gap... ...
Otherwise a show winner for sure...

Wow! How very modest of you!
I'm already on queue to request your expertise on critique, Bolero!

 

[ColinFraser]

Oh, @Bolero , have I got a progression thread for you : Stick-In-A-Pot™

 

[ColinFraser]

"Poe's law is an Internet adage that states that, without a clear indicator of the author's intent, it is impossible to create a parody of extreme views so obviously exaggerated that it cannot be mistaken by some readers or viewers as a sincere expression of the parodied views."

@Bolero is an absolute Poe. I can't tell if he's trolling us on purpose with ridiculous trees and comments, or if he is genuinely clueless about the disconnect between the level at which he practices bonsai, and the and level at which he tries to talk about it. Perhaps it doesn't matter.

Don't get me wrong; we should all feel free to criticize trees better than our own and discuss high minded concepts like the meaning of art and how it's appreciated, but a finger-painter trying to "help" with a painting at the louvre will probably be unappreciated

The rest of you will have to forgive me (or not); I really don't want to treat poorly, people who are trying to learn and participate (like most of us). If you can't see why this is a special case, then you haven't been paying attention.

Now, where the hell's my coffee!

 

[Anthony]

Sorry to All,

For us Bonsai / Tree Penjing is about the tree and the design that goes into it.

Here is another for you ----------- the frame of a painting is as a window to that world.

If I want beautiful pottery I look here -

http://fvsarts.pbworks.com/f/1289184310/song 9.jpg

and here -

http://syracusethenandnow.org/Nghbrhds/Strathmore/ScarabVase.jpg

or here

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-...Am1JDaMwjbKXdYnJnGVNrBwmIhpSqA6YGL_1U7iet6cNQ

It is all about the tree -------------------

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/17/bb/87/17bb87e9111b490b7e471463e1dbf137.jpg

Good Day,
Anthony

 

[M. Frary]

@Bolero is an absolute Poe. I can't tell if he's trolling us on purpose with ridiculous trees and comments, or if he is genuinely clueless about the disconnect between the level at which he practices bonsai, and the and level at which he tries to talk about it. Perhaps it doesn't matter.

Sweet!