Maybe we can look at this from a slightly more academic perspective- if trying to produce some criteria for defining what makes a bonsai "art" perhaps an understanding of what ART is would be helpful. The definition is broad and far reaching-
works produced by human creative skill and imagination.
This I find to be an acceptable and rational definition as it leaspves it open to interpretation and accounts for the fact that art can be and frequently is more than a "panting" or a "sculpture"... I think some measure of accountability for being a work that is "appreciated" or somehow "moving" could be integrated to the definition but that is entirely subjective as what is moving or appreciated to one person may not be to another..
Now, what IS a Bonsai?
Sorry, you guys have the incorrect translation for the word Bonsai.
Bon means shallow tray
Sai means to plant into
There is no mention of the word TREE anywhere. Now, the commonly used translation is "tree in a pot", but it is wrong, but perhaps good enough for the public who can't tell which is the tree and which is the pot. But, you learned people should know the correct wording.....
Bill
Why look further? Thank you Bill!
Again, perhaps we could integrate some value of appreciation of the "planted in tray" as well, but again those are subjective determinations having no place in a definition...
So this excercise determines that a "planted in tray" which also happens to be a "work created by human creative skill and imagination" would be what defines a bonsai as art... as I read the thread title, this seems a suitable answer.
The determination of what is good vs what is an "also ran" though is what is impossible TO define, is completely subjective and what leads to so much arguing and discussion in this thread and many others of a similar line of thought.
What I like may be different from what you like and human nature being a closed minded one, our natural first response to an opinion dissimilar to our own is the "fight or flight response". This is determined to be true of virtually all people, and why it is seemingly impossible to change someone's mind on most any subject where they have a deep held belief. We naturally add weight to opinions/ evidence that supports what we already believe and discos the value- even when faced with proven facts- of information that disproves our belief... Generally we respond to those situation by either disengaging from the convo (throwing up your hands saying "screw you guys I'm going home")- see: "flight"-
Adair thank you for the information regards your Pine and my Critique as to it Not being World Class...
I am obviously not competent to judging your Bonsai Pine, may you do well with your WC Bonsai...
My apologies to you and the Others that I may have offended by Critiquing your efforts...
And/ or we respond with insults, disparaging comments and anger: see "fight"-
@Bolero is an absolute Poe. I can't tell if he's trolling us on purpose with ridiculous trees and comments, or if he is genuinely clueless about the disconnect between the level at which he practices bonsai, and the and level at which he tries to talk about it. Perhaps it doesn't matter.
Dear Colin, your mindless rant speaks volumes of your IQ.....
If you bothered to read all the post's you would have known I was directly answering a BVF question, not critizing Adairs Tree....
You drag the thread down with your mindless Bonsai Snob attitude...
And you mess up the walls with your finger-painting
I guess there's room for all of us here.
All of this because people simply disagree on their opinions regarding the quality of bonsai or their criteria for judging them. So, when we look at it with the understanding that it is emotion and the human condition leading us down that road and we are being closed minded instead of open minded... not trying to learn from others or allow other points of view to impact us.... It makes me believe if we are more aware of what is going on we can better avoid this downward spiral in the future.
In short- I do not feel we are doing a good job of communicating in general. Not just in this thread, not just Colin and Bolero and a few others here... I mean people. In general... on the internet and too often in person, in politics... this is a good way of putting it perhaps:
So, let's just reset. The topic at hand is meaningless, let's try to work a little harder to understand each other from the perspective that we are all different. From the understanding that our initial "screw you YOU ARE WRONG" emotional response is probably not the most productive way to advance any interaction. I am willing to give it a shot...
