About Princess Persimmon

[Bonsai Nut]

Are all the smaller verticals suckers from the roots? One could start er persimmon forest from those!

Yes they are. This plant throws suckers more than any other tree I have experienced. I wish they were easy to strike cuttings from - I have yet to be successful with a single cutting.

 

[SeanS]

@Pitoon The full series is available on Amazon kindle. I keep buying them as I build up Amazon no-rush credit.

Here’s the prunus mume one:

Amazon.com

I actually have a few of them as physical books as well, but I’ve found the kindle ones more useful for working with Google translate. As you can see this one also covers Chojubai.

View attachment 530973

I just bought the Ume issue, thank you @ochong

 

[badatusernames]

Yes they are. This plant throws suckers more than any other tree I have experienced. I wish they were easy to strike cuttings from - I have yet to be successful with a single cutting.

I've had luck with a couple new growth cuttings and have a number of suckers that came off an older tree growing - it's possible. That said, I was able to get the one with suckers because the large older trunk had died, so maybe it just pushed all its energy into making the suckers viable. They were already about pencil-thick.

It's annoying due to cost but I have a lot of luck using shohin akadama as my medium for striking cuttings and getting strong growth. Maybe it's psychosomatic but it's all I want to use now... maybe that would help for some reason?

 

[River's Edge]

I've had luck with a couple new growth cuttings and have a number of suckers that came off an older tree growing - it's possible. That said, I was able to get the one with suckers because the large older trunk had died, so maybe it just pushed all its energy into making the suckers viable. They were already about pencil-thick.

It's annoying due to cost but I have a lot of luck using shohin akadama as my medium for striking cuttings and getting strong growth. Maybe it's psychosomatic but it's all I want to use now... maybe that would help for some reason?

For seeds I use akadama fines and pumice fines combined with excellent results, for cuttings I use small particle akadama and small pumice. the size that Stays on top of the small screen in a typical 3 screen sifting set.
Results improved from most other mixes due to PH of substrate, moisture retention and pore space for air combination.
In both settings I use shredded sphagnum for additional moisture retention and protection from drying out quickly.
Additional tip is to protect from excess air movement to improve humidity levels. cover or plastic enclosure depending on circumstances.example below! Ume not persimmon in this photo.

 

[badatusernames]

For seeds I use akadama fines and pumice fines combined with excellent results, for cuttings I use small particle akadama and small pumice. the size that Stays on top of the small screen in a typical 3 screen sifting set.
Results improved from most other mixes due to PH of substrate, moisture retention and pore space for air combination.
In both settings I use shredded sphagnum for additional moisture retention and protection from drying out quickly.
Additional tip is to protect from excess air movement to improve humidity levels. cover or plastic enclosure depending on circumstances.example below! Ume not persimmon in this photo.

Awesome! Glad to hear I wasn’t imagining things

 

[badatusernames]

About layering
I am layering 5 trees right now, and I am ground layering another two as well. Started last summer in the usual way. Some have roots. I will report out when separated.

About flowering
Flower buds form the previous fall. They are usually on the terminal end of a branch and are very fat compared to leaf buds. In Oregon my flower buds are starting to move already.
I recommend Miracle Grow to encourage flowering. Normal concentration every week. My mature trees all have more flower buds this year than last.

About thickening
They don't thicken much. My thickest is only about 3 inches but it is 30+ years old. I am experimenting with ground planting and miracle grow. The fat Chinese specimens are yamadori.

P.S. Let's trade some day, I don't have a black one!

Is about now when you’d air layer these, with the goal of removing before end of year? Or would you leave them over winter?

 

[NaoTK]

Is about now when you’d air layer these, with the goal of removing before end of year? Or would you leave them over winter?

I posted somewhere that these suck at airlayering, so you can try now but it is not easy. You will get a massive black callous and little/no roots. If you are lucky you will get some roots during the airlayer. I had one airlayer going for 3 years and finally gave up and cut it off. You can separate in spring as a callous and plant it in shade as a callous. It will then produce roots.

My PP seeds planted in winter are finally germinating this week in Oregon! So slow..

 

[badatusernames]

I posted somewhere that these suck at airlayering, so you can try now but it is not easy. You will get a massive black callous and little/no roots. If you are lucky you will get some roots during the airlayer. I had one airlayer going for 3 years and finally gave up and cut it off. You can separate in spring as a callous and plant it in shade as a callous. It will then produce roots.

My PP seeds planted in winter are finally germinating this week in Oregon! So slow..

Thanks - I was afraid of that. One of mine is just a tall pencil trunk - the branching looks ok up there but I don’t know if it’ll ever really turn into much. I suppose I could chop it, but feels like a shame to do so and given how they don’t thicken well I’m not sure if I should do that. Maybe just a very long term project as I wait for it to thicken haha

 

[namnhi]

I posted somewhere that these suck at airlayering, so you can try now but it is not easy. You will get a massive black callous and little/no roots. If you are lucky you will get some roots during the airlayer. I had one airlayer going for 3 years and finally gave up and cut it off. You can separate in spring as a callous and plant it in shade as a callous. It will then produce roots.

My PP seeds planted in winter are finally germinating this week in Oregon! So slow..

I had similar experience with air layers. Did 2... got one ir two roots. One I left on for over a year but... both dead.
I had better result with sowing seeds this year. I left the seeds in the fridge for at least 4 months. It took about a month to germinate... and my media is rock wool... probably not the best media since some have died.
@NaoTK have you ever try approach graft?

 

[namnhi]

 

[Canada Bonsai]

I posted somewhere that these suck at airlayering, so you can try now but it is not easy. You will get a massive black callous and little/no roots. If you are lucky you will get some roots during the airlayer. I had one airlayer going for 3 years and finally gave up and cut it off. You can separate in spring as a callous and plant it in shade as a callous. It will then produce roots.

I do wonder how much it depends on cultivar/strain. When it comes to cuttings, i have some that absolutely will not roots, whiles others roots quickly and strongly (qnd everything in between). The same is true when it comes to viability (you know this, i’m speaking for others) — some cultivars/strains MUST be grafted and will not survive on their own roots, while others do very well on their own roots. I can’t help but think this would affect success with air layers.

My PP seeds planted in winter are finally germinating this week in Oregon! So slow.

Same here in Montreal, my seeds just all pushed up from the substrate and into the air this week.

 

[leatherback]

mine too. Do yours drop their seedcoat without help?

 

[namnhi]

mine too. Do yours drop their seedcoat without help?

No help on mine.

 

[vp999]

View attachment 553798

Are they all female bro?

 

[namnhi]

If you are asking about seedlings then no one knows until they start to flower. I have read that the ratio for male/female is like 80/20. That's why I ask about approach graft... I have a few female with branches that I can graft to the male.

 

[NaoTK]

I had similar experience with air layers. Did 2... got one ir two roots. One I left on for over a year but... both dead.
I had better result with sowing seeds this year. I left the seeds in the fridge for at least 4 months. It took about a month to germinate... and my media is rock wool... probably not the best media since some have died.
@NaoTK have you ever try approach graft?

I haven't tried an approach graft, but I think it should work because regular grafting works. That's not a bad idea actually, I will give it a shot. It may work in summer too when its too difficult to do a regular graft.
THREAD GRAFTS do not work. The problem is PP puts on caliper so slow and it does not bridge gaps laterally. So even after the graft pancakes out it still will not merge, even if you scar both sides of the grafts. I had one going for many many years and it just didn't take.

 

[badatusernames]

A little before /after from removing medical tape wrapped wire from the trunk

I have others that are better, but this is my thickest. It is pretty flexible so I’m letting it go til leaves fall when I’ll wire it again.

The medical tape trick is good, but it makes it harder to figure out when the wire is really biting

No fruit this year. I saw them starting on some but they fell off. Reading archives here leads me to think I need to be more focused on light fertilization.

I’d love to air layer this and start something new from the base, but I guess air layering is a crapshoot.

Worst case scenario, I hope to grow strong roots to make cuttings from.

 

[badatusernames]

Here’s my most interesting one, and the one that looked most liable to set fruit this year. They fell off, but I am heavily fertilizing right now

 

[badatusernames]

I thought we had a thread about pp from seed but can’t find it

Lesson learned: never give up hope. I gave up on these other than to leave them beneath my bonsai bench where they caught water when I watered the plants up top. Often dried out.

And yet, here today…

Turns out they take a lot of time to pop.

Seeds from @Canada Bonsai — I do think the rest are toast due to the neglect, but hey, hope this is a female.

My white pine seeds are probably a wash, though

 

[badatusernames]

actually I think half of these pots were repurposed for beautyberry cuttings since I didn’t want to waste the soil so who knows maybe one of those will have a surprise

Nothing yet tho so prob not