A Few Ponderings of Naturalistic Style

[Cadillactaste]

But back on topic...I prefer the less is more...to a refined helmet head...though,I do appreciate the talent that went into the more refined trees. Do you have Will's book? Some good inspiration found there.

 

[Adair M]

Azalea, quince, boxwood, etc are Woody shrubs. Not trees. They can be trained to resemble trees, but left to their own devices, they would be a multitrunked shrub.

Quince are shown both as single trunk “trees” as well as shrub like clumps.

In Japan, many do not consider azalea as true “bonsai” since they are not really trees. The azalea people have their own shows and non-azalea are not allowed. And there are clubs and associations that ban azaleas. Only recently have azalea been allowed at Kokofu-ten.

Even within the azalea groups, there are two factions: one that tries to grow azalea to resemble pine trees, and look more like traditional bonsai, and the other faction grows them initially as tall whips so the trunks are relatively thin and taperless. These have branches spaced out to provide room for the flowers to open without contacting the branches above. These styles are designed to maximize the effect of the flowers, and not necessarily adhere to the standard aesthetics of traditional bonsai.

 

[just.wing.it]

Azalea, quince, boxwood, etc are Woody shrubs. Not trees. They can be trained to resemble trees, but left to their own devices, they would be a multitrunked shrub.

Quince are shown both as single trunk “trees” as well as shrub like clumps.

In Japan, many do not consider azalea as true “bonsai” since they are not really trees. The azalea people have their own shows and non-azalea are not allowed. And there are clubs and associations that ban azaleas. Only recently have azalea been allowed at Kokofu-ten.

Even within the azalea groups, there are two factions: one that tries to grow azalea to resemble pine trees, and look more like traditional bonsai, and the other faction grows them initially as tall whips so the trunks are relatively thin and taperless. These have branches spaced out to provide room for the flowers to open without contacting the branches above. These styles are designed to maximize the effect of the flowers, and not necessarily adhere to the standard aesthetics of traditional bonsai.

Interesting...

Poor Azalea guys...excluded from the fun...

 

[Djtommy]

Interesting...

Poor Azalea guys...excluded from the fun...

I bet this guy doesn’t care.

 

[Vance Wood]

I wouldn't come down too hard on the Azalea argument. If it is true that some disallow the Azalea because it is not a tree what excuse do they us for a host of other plants?

 

[Vance Wood]

My take on "naturalistic" style, and I might be all wet:
A plant that looks like a miniature of a tree one might find growing wild. Not necessarily how that particular species might grow. For instance I might try to make my boxwood look like an old, spreading live oak or style my privet to emulate a grand park elm.
So, juniper. To take shinkapu and style it to look like a miniature of an old gnarly mountain juniper would be naturalistic.
I am not sure an azalea bonsai will ever look like a miniature tree.

I understand what you are saying but I do not agree with your concept of the idea. You understand it as letting a tree have its head and do it's own thing style, that's OK and probably as legitimate as mine but my concept of the naturalistic style is more of causing the tree to do something that is not necessarily within the pantheon of bonsai styles and more like the kind of forms that would occur in the wild with a tree that has been abused by nature into some bazar shapes not standard with the species. My goal is to emulate that process and history in bonsai.

Anybody can allow a potato to become a potato but the question is: Do you have use for a potato (metaphorically speaking) bonsai? Many trees grown as bonsai, if allowed to grow unfettered would not make very good bonsai.

 

[Adair M]

Vance, I’m just telling what I remember hearing from Daisaku Nomoto (Boon’s senior). His English is not the best, so it’s hard for him to explain a lot of subtleties. He just said the the bonsai people were a separate group than the azalea people. Some do both, but for the most part they’re segregated.

 

[Cadillactaste]

Vance, I’m just telling what I remember hearing from Daisaku Nomoto (Boon’s senior). His English is not the best, so it’s hard for him to explain a lot of subtleties. He just said the the bonsai people were a separate group than the azalea people. Some do both, but for the most part they’re segregated.

Sounds like he personally seen them as two individual groups. I ponder...if they wish for those showing flowering species not compete with pine ? To go up against a pine being judged almost seems unfair..would be hard to compete with yamadori trunks and all.

 

[Vance Wood]

Vance, I’m just telling what I remember hearing from Daisaku Nomoto (Boon’s senior). His English is not the best, so it’s hard for him to explain a lot of subtleties. He just said the the bonsai people were a separate group than the azalea people. Some do both, but for the most part they’re segregated.

I don't disbelieve that but, that does not mean we have to accept that idea as graven in stone. Sometimes the Japanese can be very clannish and stodgy about things and then they can be very poor about transmitting the reason behind this point of view.

 

[Ruben Bouwmeester]

Bonsai or penjing, is a form of Art. Why is it western society never been named? I love my sumo azalea, is it a trend? I think nature style is making a fast forward. But some rules in bonsai, can't be ignored. Just my point of view.

 

[James W.]

I understand what you are saying but I do not agree with your concept of the idea. You understand it as letting a tree have its head and do it's own thing style, that's OK and probably as legitimate as mine but my concept of the naturalistic style is more of causing the tree to do something that is not necessarily within the pantheon of bonsai styles and more like the kind of forms that would occur in the wild with a tree that has been abused by nature into some bazar shapes not standard with the species. My goal is to emulate that process and history in bonsai.

Anybody can allow a potato to become a potato but the question is: Do you have use for a potato (metaphorically speaking) bonsai? Many trees grown as bonsai, if allowed to grow unfettered would not make very good bonsai.

I am agreeing with you. Not to let the plant do whatever it wants, but style it to whatever looks good (or natural in this case) even if/when it ends up representing a different species. Who would want a cotoneaster trained to look like a cotoneaster? (Well I might, they have a certain charm.) Train it to represent an old apple tree. That got lightning stuck! Then washed halfway down the hill!

 

[Adair M]

Sounds like he personally seen them as two individual groups. I ponder...if they wish for those showing flowering species not compete with pine ? To go up against a pine being judged almost seems unfair..would be hard to compete with yamadori trunks and all.

Lol!! No, it’s not the pine lovers afraid of competing with an azalea in bloom! After all the Kokofu-ten has Ume in bloom.

But you see, an Ume is a tree. A fruit bearing tree. Quince are fruit bearing.

Azalea is a flowering shrub. They are appreciated for their flowers. If they didn’t bloom, would anyone keep them?

I know, “What difference does it make?” Well really none to me. It’s the Japanese who draw the distinction.

I guess one thing is the azalea blooms are large. So, when in bloom the flowers are out of proportion. As compared to Ume or Quince which have small flowers.

 

[just.wing.it]

Lol!! No, it’s not the pine lovers afraid of competing with an azalea in bloom! After all the Kokofu-ten has Ume in bloom.

But you see, an Ume is a tree. A fruit bearing tree. Quince are fruit bearing.

Azalea is a flowering shrub. They are appreciated for their flowers. If they didn’t bloom, would anyone keep them?

I know, “What difference does it make?” Well really none to me. It’s the Japanese who draw the distinction.

I guess one thing is the azalea blooms are large. So, when in bloom the flowers are out of proportion. As compared to Ume or Quince which have small flowers.

I'd still keep them if they didn't bloom!
I do have a boxwood, after all....

 

[Vance Wood]

Lol!! No, it’s not the pine lovers afraid of competing with an azalea in bloom! After all the Kokofu-ten has Ume in bloom.

But you see, an Ume is a tree. A fruit bearing tree. Quince are fruit bearing.

Azalea is a flowering shrub. They are appreciated for their flowers. If they didn’t bloom, would anyone keep them?

I know, “What difference does it make?” Well really none to me. It’s the Japanese who draw the distinction.

I guess one thing is the azalea blooms are large. So, when in bloom the flowers are out of proportion. As compared to Ume or Quince which have small flowers.

Azaleas are grown for their foliage only in some cases in Japan when they can be used as a hedge in Japanese gardens. Azaleas have beautiful foliage that tends to be overpowered by the image of their flowers.

 

[just.wing.it]

Azaleas are grown for their foliage only in some cases in Japan when they can be used as a hedge in Japanese gardens. Azaleas have beautiful foliage that tends to be overpowered by the image of their flowers.

I like how the leaves have tiny hairs on them...

 

[0soyoung]

I like how the leaves have tiny hairs on them...

And now we know one of the characteristics that differentiates an azalea from a rhododendron!

 

[Cadillactaste]

Lol!! No, it’s not the pine lovers afraid of competing with an azalea in bloom! After all the Kokofu-ten has Ume in bloom.

But you see, an Ume is a tree. A fruit bearing tree. Quince are fruit bearing.

Azalea is a flowering shrub. They are appreciated for their flowers. If they didn’t bloom, would anyone keep them?

I know, “What difference does it make?” Well really none to me. It’s the Japanese who draw the distinction.

I guess one thing is the azalea blooms are large. So, when in bloom the flowers are out of proportion. As compared to Ume or Quince which have small flowers.

No, I meant...azalea folk were afraid to put them up next to pine. Lol pine being a much more imposing tree.

Good points...but, I think you are right to some degree. Many would be more apt not to have them. My Satsuki...I admire out of bloom. But, I a strange one.

 

[Hannahmm]

Azalea trees in Gaoligong Mountains in Tengchong

http://www.yunnanadventure.com/index.php/Attraction/show/id/455.html

 

[Djtommy]

here is my naturalistic azalea. Well rhododendron actually.
This type fits more for naturalistic then azalea I think.
Azalea as they appear in nature isn’t appealing as bonsai to me.

 

[Djtommy]

Azalea trees in Gaoligong Mountains in Tengchong

http://www.yunnanadventure.com/index.php/Attraction/show/id/455.html

Wow, I didn’t know there are kinds that grow this tall.