Show your 2024 maple colors!

19Mateo83

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The new addition from maples n more nursery. This bonfire JM is 🔥
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Dan W.

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I'm a big fan of Wilsons Pink.
I have one in ground I plan to get a couple of layers from.
Me too! That one is actually a cutting, and I took two air layers last year that rooted very well. It's a strong cultivar for a "dwarf".
 

Maiden69

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Technically not possible…
@William N. Valavanis posted on his blog that he gets quite a few arakawa seedlings from his large garden tree that do develop the rough bark including on the roots as his cuttings.

This year all my JMs lack color, all the foliage so far has been green.

Mikawa seedling

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Kotohime

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Hubble's Cork

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Brian Van Fleet

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@William N. Valavanis posted on his blog that he gets quite a few arakawa seedlings from his large garden tree that do develop the rough bark including on the roots as his cuttings.

This year all my JMs lack color, all the foliage so far has been green.

Mikawa seedling



Kotohime



Hubble's Cork
Correct use of/adherence to the term cultivar is important to the preservation of their specific characteristics. Cork bark doesn’t necessarily mean it is an ’Arakawa’ cultivar. This is a bad example because arakawa loosely means rough bark. But it isn’t possible to have a ‘Koto-hime’ seedling.
 

Maiden69

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Correct use of/adherence to the term cultivar is important to the preservation of their specific characteristics. Cork bark doesn’t necessarily mean it is an ’Arakawa’ cultivar. This is a bad example because arakawa loosely means rough bark. But it isn’t possible to have a ‘Koto-hime’ seedling.
That makes sense, but wouldn't the arakawa seedlings that show the same traits and characteristics be called an arakawa? I guess the only way to determine if it is the actual cultivar would be by doing a DNA testing, but then again, if the seedlings develop the correct traits how do we know that what we have is the actual cultivar? It could have been a cutting from an arakawa seedling.

This is what MrMaple is doing with the mikawa yatsubusa seedlings, labeling them as suck and specifying that the traits are different from the cultivar.
 

Dan W.

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Is this just a common misnomer or is there actually another cultivar that is like Wilsons Pink Dwarf, but is larger?
Wilson's Pink Dwarf is the whole name. I believe some just shorten it in conversation. Apparently some think the tree grows too large to be called a dwarf, but I think small leaves and good vigor are great for bonsai purposes.
 
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you could call it a seedling from arakawa, but not Arakawa.

Some seedling may have rough bark some may not. And if you have a handful of seedlings with the rough bark they all may have completely different leaf color, shape, and size from each other and from Arakawa.

With that being said. I have seen a variance in leaf color and shape in rough bark maples labeled as Arakawa being sold in the US
 

Brian Van Fleet

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That makes sense, but wouldn't the arakawa seedlings that show the same traits and characteristics be called an arakawa?
Yes, generically arakawa, but not Acer palmatum, ‘Arakawa’.

I guess the only way to determine if it is the actual cultivar would be by doing a DNA testing,
Yes, assuming it’s actually mapped.😜

but then again, if the seedlings develop the correct traits how do we know that what we have is the actual cultivar?
We don’t, therefore it’s not a cultivar. Cultivars are propagated as clones: air layer, cutting, grafting, tissue culture from a known cultivar.

It could have been a cutting from an arakawa seedling.
Generically arakawa, not Ap, ‘Arakawa’.

This is what MrMaple is doing with the mikawa yatsubusa seedlings, labeling them as suck and specifying that the traits are different from the cultivar.
Probably the correct way to handle this.
 

Dan W.

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Correct use of/adherence to the term cultivar is important to the preservation of their specific characteristics. Cork bark doesn’t necessarily mean it is an ’Arakawa’ cultivar. This is a bad example because arakawa loosely means rough bark. But it isn’t possible to have a ‘Koto-hime’ seedling.
I totally agree. However, I wonder if we even know for sure what the exact 'Arakawa' cultivar is any more. It's very possible that enough nurseries have slapped the name on rough bark seedlings for long enough now that it does more generally apply to similar trees, much like has happened with Sango kaku. I also noticed that Meriggioli's book mentions that Arakawa can have varying leaf forms from tree to tree.
 

NateDyk47

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That makes sense, but wouldn't the arakawa seedlings that show the same traits and characteristics be called an arakawa? I guess the only way to determine if it is the actual cultivar would be by doing a DNA testing, but then again, if the seedlings develop the correct traits how do we know that what we have is the actual cultivar? It could have been a cutting from an arakawa seedling.

This is what MrMaple is doing with the mikawa yatsubusa seedlings, labeling them as suck and specifying that the traits are different from the cultivar.
Seedlings from an 'Arakawa' will have different genetics, even if both parent plants are the 'Arakawa' cultivar. It will share some, possibly many, traits with the parents, but will not be identical. It may even exhibit characteristics that are better than the parents. If your goal is to create a good bonsai or landscape tree, I wouldn't worry too much about whether it's the cultivar or not, just whether it has the traits you desire. If you're trying to run a nursery and sell JMs, you may care more about having an exact genetic copy of popular cultivars for marketing purposes.
 

NateDyk47

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I totally agree. However, I wonder if we even know for sure what the exact 'Arakawa' cultivar is any more. It's very possible that enough nurseries have slapped the name on rough bark seedlings for long enough now that it does more generally apply to similar trees, much like has happened with Sango kaku. I also noticed that Meriggioli's book mentions that Arakawa can have varying leaf forms from tree to tree.
I'm sure this is happening to some extent. I heard on the Mr. Maple podcast recently that they did genetic testing on a bunch of plants being sold as 'Bloodgood' and found 18 unique sets of genetics. This probably happened due to the exact scenario you described. If you really care about getting a particular cultivar, I guess you have to make sure you're getting it from a reliable source.

Re: Meriggioli's book - I've only read part of it so far. However, I've heard from others here that his bonsai development explanations are excellent, but his JM horticultural knowledge seems to have some gaps.
 

Dan W.

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I'm sure this is happening to some extent. I heard on the Mr. Maple podcast recently that they did genetic testing on a bunch of plants being sold as 'Bloodgood' and found 18 unique sets of genetics. This probably happened due to the exact scenario you described. If you really care about getting a particular cultivar, I guess you have to make sure you're getting it from a reliable source.

Re: Meriggioli's book - I've only read part of it so far. However, I've heard from others here that his bonsai development explanations are excellent, but his JM horticultural knowledge seems to have some gaps.
Interesting! which episode was that on?
 

Japonicus

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Is this just a common misnomer or is there actually another cultivar that is like Wilsons Pink Dwarf, but is larger?
I'm only aware of the cultivar Wilson's Pink known as a dwarf variety.
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This one hasn't opened up yet.
It is a bit more weather savy than my Katsura. Went in ground 2018 or shortly before probably more like it. Turns green for the Summer. Don't think Fall is anything to write home about, but for detailed Spring display up close it's quite attractive.
Handles full Sun till mid afternoon like a champ then shade the remainder of the day.
Leaves remain quite small as well as short enough internodes. Internodes reduce well with pruning. I'll be sure to post pics as it opens up.
 

19Mateo83

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Another sweet little kiyo hime in all of its glory. This one is still on grafted rootstock but the graft is clean and the roots are nice and radial. Excellent spring colors.
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The second one was a discount rack pick up, it is the rootstock that the graft had died on at Home Depot. It has lovely spring color for a green JM
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