Zuisho White Pine

[Adair M]

As I mentioned before, the success rate with cuttings is extremely low. Julian says it's about 6%. Better than 0%,I guess...

On the other hand, layering works nearly 100% of the time.

So...

If you were to go into the propagation business, I would do it two ways: 1) for branches you plan to remove, air layer them. 2) to make good use of "trimmings", graft them onto JBP seedlings. Let them grow for as long as you like, then airlayer them!

Just because they "can" be grown as cuttings doesn't mean that's the most efficient way.

 

[vaibatron]

On the other hand, layering works nearly 100% of the time.

Don't go making promised you can't keep

 

[Adair M]

45" wide, 32" tall now, with a 2.5" trunk at the soil line, 12 years old. May be ready for some work in a few more years.
I still haven't removed anything from it, except a bunch of pine cones!
View attachment 106421

What's the plan for those two bottom branches? (Maybe there's 3 of them?). They're going to be too big (fat) to use in the future tree. They've developed some taper at the base, that's good! But if they get much bigger, they'll make a huge scar that will be tough to cover over.

A bit farther up I see some nice smaller (thinner) branches that will be great to work with.

The "dirty secret" is they graft branches on the trunk where they want them once the get the trunk grown out. It might be time to start planning the graft locations.

 

[Adair M]

Don't go making promised you can't keep

Do you know Zuisho?

Zuisho and Kokonoe JWP are two cultivars that are known to be particularly easy to layer. Unlike most JWP.

 

[vaibatron]

Do you know Zuisho?

Zuisho and Kokonoe JWP are two cultivars that are known to be particularly easy to layer. Unlike most JWP.

I am aware. However, while I admire them dearly, JWP don't fare so well in my climate. I stick with JBP and mugo. Unpredictably warm winters and excessively hot/humid spring and summers have kept me from ever trying to grow.

Heat index is hitting 96 today, and it's not even June!

I was just giving you a poke!

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

I am aware. However, while I admire them dearly, JWP don't fare so well in my climate. I stick with JBP and mugo. Unpredictably warm winters and excessively hot/humid spring and summers have kept me from ever trying to grow.

Have you been to Birmingham?

@Adair M , yes, it has 3 low branches; 2 of which will be reduced until they're removed, making them good layering candidates...and/or grafting candidates in the section above that bottom whorl. They also have foliage in very close, so they're still quite viable as primary branches. We'll see, haven't made any styling decisions yet.

 

[Eric Group]

I am aware. However, while I admire them dearly, JWP don't fare so well in my climate. I stick with JBP and mugo. Unpredictably warm winters and excessively hot/humid spring and summers have kept me from ever trying to grow.

Heat index is hitting 96 today, and it's not even June!

I was just giving you a poke!

I know multiple people who grow them here in SC, a much MUCH warmer region than yours. Your weather would not prevent you from growing JWP at all. I have seen JWP grown from seed, grafted to JBP and multiple different varieties that lived here successfully for many years. Spruce... Not so much, way too hot for long term health it seems... Never tried Larch, but JWP, Quince, Amur Maple... All do quite well even a couple states south of yours.

 

[Adair M]

Have you been to Birmingham?

@Adair M , yes, it has 3 low branches; 2 of which will be reduced until they're removed, making them good layering candidates...and/or grafting candidates in the section above that bottom whorl. They also have foliage in very close, so they're still quite viable as primary branches. We'll see, haven't made any styling decisions yet.

They do have close-in foliage. But their diameter is getting large. Which makes the trunk look small. Using smaller (thinner) branches will make the trunk look bigger.

Especially so on pines. It's one of the challenges of working with pines.

Now, if you were to use on of those low branches to be the new trunk... That's an entirely different matter!!! If you do that, you would certainly want to airlayer the current main trunk first.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

I know that's what you teach, and I agree to a point. But we'll see. Lots of good little shoots still in close means options.

 

[vaibatron]

Have you been to Birmingham?

I know multiple people who grow them here in SC, a much MUCH warmer region than yours. Your weather would not prevent you from growing JWP at all. I have seen JWP grown from seed, grafted to JBP and multiple different varieties that lived here successfully for many years. Spruce... Not so much, way too hot for long term health it seems... Never tried Larch, but JWP, Quince, Amur Maple... All do quite well even a couple states south of yours.

You guys have convinced me to give it a try. Thanks for the info!

@Eric Group, I guess it works both ways! JWP in my hood, quince and amur in yours. Never tried larch although I'm envious of those in nor east/Midwest ... Been hunting for years and never found a hint of them. Seems I've been chasing unicorns...

 

[Adair M]

I know that's what you teach, and I agree to a point. But we'll see. Lots of good little shoots still in close means options.

I don't want to belabor a point...

But here's a closeup picture of a couple of my Zuisho branches as they were getting wired. The small branches appears to make the trunk look larger.

Oh, and there were some larger branches on the tree some time in the past. They were cut off and about 3 or 4 inches of stub were left on the trunk. The stubs were jinned. Most of them were removed when the tree was wired.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

I don't want to belabor a point...

You sure about that?

 

[M. Frary]

You sure about that?

He isnt. But that's the cool thing about Adair.

 

[Adair M]

He isnt. But that's the cool thing about Adair.

Yeah, sorry about that. I was just trying to "illustrate" my point.

Didn't mean to be obnoxious about it.

 

[M. Frary]

Yeah, sorry about that. I was just trying to "illustrate" my point.

Didn't mean to be obnoxious about it.

You weren't being obnoxious one bit. I like the fact that you will share this stuff all of the time.
And it's just who you are Adair. It would get boring fast if everyone was the same.
Keep it up!

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Pruned this back for the first time since I got it as a 2-year-old graft in 2006. The trunk is not as large as I want it yet, but was time to head it back a little. It had become about 32" tall and 48" wide. Unchecked, they can grow taperless, boring trunks, which I don't want, and where this was headed.

So I removed what I know I don't want, and preserved three options: upright, "twin trunk" (maybe), and using the left branch as the next section of trunk; which is probably what I'll end up doing:

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Some of the carnage. The lowest-right branch was 30" long.

Started 50 cuttings from some of the shoots:

 

[YukiShiro]

Hi Brian,

Like last option. Though I think the last option will provide the best movement but will require the most time.

great growing Brian

Best regards
Herman

 

[Nybonsai12]

I know it's what had to be done for the long term goal, but I wouldn't have the rocks to cut that off after 10 years of looking at it!

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

I know it's what had to be done for the long term goal, but I wouldn't have the rocks to cut that off after 10 years of looking at it!

Life's too short to cut too high.