Zuisho Japanese White pine

[sorce]

The only one that doesn't work for me, because it 's too unstable, is the one at Don 's where you can see the right, round under. It's uncomfortable.

3865, clearly has the best taper(lean helps), and of the roots, I keep hearing W.P. say something like, "is it ugly, make it uglier". Except in this case, the femininity of it says, make it more feminine.

It does seem to need something to anchor the lean.

Which cliff would such a fine thing grow on?
I think a really nice rock to plant it in would be best and help the roots issue.
Better tell the story.

With white pine for me, foilage is first, it just pops!
With a W.P. like initial styling, people will change their minds.

I think the most important part of this art is telling the story visually.
I can believe those roots if it's in a rock. A pot won't do.
Like W.P. says of his watering method, you can not change anything.
The same can be said for the need of the lightest,most excellent container for this gal.

Please don't jin the top.....YOU GOT THIS.

I believe she lived strong after" the incedent".

Sorce

 

[Si Nguyen]

Spectacular tree! Thanks for showing it Judy

I agree with Sawgrass completely. I see a shorter tree here too. The straight portion is not good. By converting it into a shari with a slight spiral, you could match it with the shari in the base. You have plenty of lower branches for a nice small (chuhin) size bonsai. I like the original planting angle in the first picture too. That angle is most natural for the curve of the nebari. Here's how I see it:

 

[JudyB]

Thank you for all the well thought out replies. I do have a plan for this tree (actually 3 plans) based on where the planting angle can take me. The safest plan is something close to Si's virt, (thanks Si+SG) but probably not loosing quite as much of the tree. I have some other ideas, but will see what I can do with the angle first.

NY- yes leans away in 3869.

Adair, I know that both you and John looked at this tree. I just see something different than you did, I like the base. I do not think that I'll look to layer it. Did you see it in person? In person there is more taper than is immediately visible in the photos. There is a secondary fat apex up top that can be removed, giving more taper right away. Carving will be something necessary for this tree, and I have plans to carve in a way that creates some harmony with the deadwood on the base and story of the tree.

Thanks Brian, I'm encouraged that you think I can get that much angle out in one year. And Dave, I do think it's possible, we will see.

Ed, I said that the angle wouldn't work with the root facing the viewer, not that I'd hide the root to use that side.

I have thought about a slab, or rock pot for this planting in the future, but it'd have to be pretty large to work I think. (heavy!)


Again, I appreciate all the input, I think this tree is stunning firsthand, and I hope to bring out the best aspects of it. My plan was not to show this tree here yet, but the angle question led to this thread, so it's probably a positive thing.

 

[Adair M]

Judy, I gid not see the tree in person. I shared the pictures with Kirby, and he put me on the trail to another tree that I have since aquired.

I do like Si's virt, and if you decide to go in that direction, it would make a very dramatic presentation. If you do go that way, I still think you ought to layer off the apex to get another tree out of it.

If there is an opportunity to have a workshop with Graghm Potter, this is the perfect tree for him!

 

[JudyB]

Judy, I gid not see the tree in person. I shared the pictures with Kirby, and he put me on the trail to another tree that I have since aquired.

I do like Si's virt, and if you decide to go in that direction, it would make a very dramatic presentation. If you do go that way, I still think you ought to layer off the apex to get another tree out of it.

If there is an opportunity to have a workshop with Graghm Potter, this is the perfect tree for him!

Thanks Adair, and how right you are about Graham, I have been trying to put my GP hat on for this.
I'm probably too impatient to do an airlayer on this tree to get another tree from the top...

 

[mcpesq817]

Judy, I have to be honest with you... I don't like the nebari. If the trunk wasn't so straight, I could live with it, but as it is, well, it's just incongruous.

Don offered me this pine last summer, and I have to tell you, I passed on it.

I agree with Adair that there is an issue between the very long straight trunk and nebari. It's like you have components for two completely different trees - a rugged beaten up tree and a stately formal upright.

If you want to go with the former, then Si's sketch is a very nice option (I have a small collected ponderosa that I'm planning to style along the lines of that sketch). The hardest part will be chopping half the tree, especially when I'm sure that the height of the tree was a big part of what was probably a very hefty price for the tree. If you want to go with the latter, then I think Adair is right that you probably need to air layer off the roots. I would have a professional do it, as I don't know what the success rate of layering JWPs is. Plus, it might set you back a decade or more to get the makings of decent nebari - especially if you don't put it in the ground. Julian Adams brings zuishos to our local annual show, and these seem to be very slow growing.

If it was my tree, I think I would go with the chop as this would give you the nicest tree in the fastest amount of time with the least amount of risk. Very nice tree though - you don't see many big zuishos.

 

[Si Nguyen]

I agree completely with Adair and others about the air-layering of the top portion of this tree. There's a cool little shohin or two there already. The bottom part of the tree can be wired and styled in place first, and by the time those wires are removed, the top can be separated. So you don't really waste any time in doing the air-layering. If you could get a shohin out of the top, it could be more valuable the bottom tree. I would aim for shohin size or smaller. Try not to get too much of that straight trunk in the air layer. That fat straight portion is better as a jin/shari for your bottom tree. And it may not root as well as the top younger section.
Good luck!

 

[Adair M]

Zuisho is the easiest pine to airlayer.

Go for it Judy!

 

[drew33998]

Pic number 5 of the second set of photos for me.

 

[Paradox]

Very nice trunk on that tree.

I agree Si's vert would be a nice way to go.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

If you listen to the discussion about the first tree in that show, you'll hear that (1) Colin thinks the front should be different than it is, but (2) Kathy Shaner suggested the current front that Colin doesn't like. So, where does that leave you? Two long-time respected bonsai professionals believe two different fronts should be used. Interpret that as you will regarding rules and guidelines.

Problem is we don't see the tree from the current front so it's tough to form an opinion.

I was there during the critique, my preference for that tree was to use the back of the tree, putting the largest trunk forward, but that is only my thought. It is a beautiful tree.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Judy, that is a beautiful JWP. Personally I would be stumped as to what to do myself. I will be interested to see how this one progresses.

 

[dkraft81]

Judy, there is an awesome tree in there. Stick to your vision of the tree and make it happen. Not in a million years would I air layer that tree. I look forward to where you take it in the future. On a side note if you decide you want to plant it on a slab, get with me I have a bunch of natural granite slabs that I have been collecting.

 

[JudyB]

I have several ideas Leo, and will try to make sketches for myself this weekend. That way once I get it replanted, I'll remember what I was planning.

dkraft, I have an idea for a slab, but fear the weight. But after I get it figured out, I may look to a slab in a couple years. And I agree, there is an awesome tree in there, I think I am up to the task.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

For what it is worth, in 3 attempts, I have had 0% success air layering JWP. I have had some success air layering JBP and Malus, but zero success with JWP. This is not a technique I would apply to this tree.

 

[Adair M]

Leo,

Did you try to airlayer a Zuisho? From what I understand, they're different.

 

[JudyB]

Here is the tree repotted in a lovely Yamaaki pot (thanks Brian yet again!) I was able to correct the angle completely. I will probably not do anything to this tree this season, but map the future styling of it. I could not see the tree for the lean before, so it will be good to just study it for a while this summer. I will no doubt edit the branches and wire it this coming winter. Something to look forward to for sure. What a great tree, Thank You Don!
Happy Easter everyone!

 

[crust]

Your plan to let is strengthen is what I would do--then I would plan in detail and hit it with an initial hard styling. With a tree like this I believe presence is required to make decisions but however you go to me the special beauty of this type of pine is in the foliage and how they are presented on the branches--which is rare and cool.

 

[JudyB]

Yes strengthening is the key. I had to take off significant large roots, so no taking chances here. Plan, scheme, draft, go!

 

[Nybonsai12]

Tree looks damn good in that pot. Very nice yamaaki, I dig the curves along the bottom. Can't wait for the first styling whenever that may be. I know I'd be tempted to mess with it although I know waiting is the right thing to do. I'm a New Yorker, we are an impatient bunch.