Is this zuisho worth buying?

[kudos91]

Hi everyone,
i recently saw this zuisho on sale which has beautiful nebari but the plant seem too tall for me and lack the branches in the upper part which may makes styling a challenge. I was thinking maybe removing a lower branch would make the tree look more balance or remove the upper par to reduce the height but I'm not quite sure yet. Since they are selling it for quite some money, I would like to hear your opinion about the potential of this tree first before making decision. what do you you think a bout the potential of this one to make a good future bonsai?

Thanks a lot in advance !

 

[brentwood]

If the money isn't an issue, I'd snatch it up and do very little to its branches, maybe put in a wider pot and let those roots spread a little. Just me, but I love it.

B

 

[MaciekA]

I feel confident that I could do the necessary work to make this tree live up to its potential over time. I don't know your degree of training or experience with pine bonsai work, but success with this tree ultimately comes down to skills and experience with pine horticulture + styling, as well as the discipline to not immediately remove hard-won primaries while chasing a short term design goal. There's still the question of what's under the soil -- personally I wouldn't trust it (especially if it is imported) and would leave (and continue to style) as much of the branching on the tree as possible until I was very confident about what was in the pot. The styling and maintenance thus far would make me be cautious about horticultural factors. It's hard to tell for sure but color isn't as uniformly good as it could be.

I can't make out a price on the tag so I won't comment on whether the value or whether it's sensible to buy this tree or not. In the US, a zuisho of this size and slightly more mature bark texture isn't exactly common. If 100% of your bonsai budget is going to this tree and that number is very big, consider making that number much smaller and also seeking a pine bonsai teacher. With good pine techniques training , sizing up the potential of a tree like this is much easier, and the ensuing post-buy risk is also much lower.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Depends on the price, but...

Yes it has some challenges, but it is not very far from being a very nice tree. Anyone considering material of this quality should probably be comfortable working with JWP - but this is a very good piece of material in my opinion. The top has been allowed to get too strong, and the tree is horribly under-potted, and therefore the lower branches are weaker than you would want, and the overall tree needs some love - it is not as strong and healthy as it should be. But I would be very happy to have this tree in my garden. Many zuisho here in the states have weak nebari and/or bad grafting scars.

 

[Nybonsai12]

If the money isn't an issue, I'd snatch it up and do very little to its branches, maybe put in a wider pot and let those roots spread a little. Just me, but I love it.

B

This…

 

[kudos91]

thanks a lot guys! So I have to admit I'm not experience with pine. I only work with juniper and maples so far but with horticulture techniques I think i can manage. I'm a bit reluctant with this one because normally with juniper I have couple of big one but the most important work like positioning the main branches and carving dead wood has already been done when i bough them, so it's much easier for me to finish wiring and forming pads there.
They wanted 1800 euro, so almost 2000 dollar for this one, and it's really a lot of money for me in time like this so I definitely have to think carefully about the future of this one. I don't think I will have problem to keep it healthy and develop more branches, but I cannot really imagine beyond that point the overall design of this one... I definitely can find some nice and easier option for less but the fact that this one is a zuisho on its own root and the beautiful root just make me coming back considering this.
My plan would be putting it in a big air pruning pot for couple of years and developing the foliage but no idea what beyond that ....

 

[penumbra]

It really depends on the cost and how comfortable you are with it. Personally, I would scoop it up.

 

[brentwood]

thanks a lot guys! So I have to admit I'm not experience with pine. I only work with juniper and maples so far but with horticulture techniques I think i can manage. I'm a bit reluctant with this one because normally with juniper I have couple of big one but the most important work like positioning the main branches and carving dead wood has already been done when i bough them, so it's much easier for me to finish wiring and forming pads there.
They wanted 1800 euro, so almost 2000 dollar for this one, and it's really a lot of money for me in time like this so I definitely have to think carefully about the future of this one. I don't think I will have problem to keep it healthy and develop more branches, but I cannot really imagine beyond that point the overall design of this one... I definitely can find some nice and easier option for less but the fact that this one is a zuisho on its own root and the beautiful root just make me coming back considering this.
My plan would be putting it in a big air pruning pot for couple of years and developing the foliage but no idea what beyond that ....

Get a copy of Julian Adams' book on pines, learn the timing of single flush pines - work with someone for a season or two on it. It's got a simple schedule, but it needs to be learned if you want to keep that healthy.

Good luck!
B

 

[River's Edge]

Hi everyone,
i recently saw this zuisho on sale which has beautiful nebari but the plant seem too tall for me and lack the branches in the upper part which may makes styling a challenge. I was thinking maybe removing a lower branch would make the tree look more balance or remove the upper par to reduce the height but I'm not quite sure yet. Since they are selling it for quite some money, I would like to hear your opinion about the potential of this tree first before making decision. what do you you think a bout the potential of this one to make a good future bonsai?

Thanks a lot in advance !

I am not familiar with your local market value! The tree is not in the best of condition. However, a Zuisho on its own roots with that age and no apparent major flaws. ( based on pictures only, would need to carefully examine in person before purchase)
That being said if it were available to me at that price I would purchase it.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Nice tree, probably priced about right for the cultivar. I’d try to keep the height and delay pruning for a while until you know what you want.

 

[_#1_]

Anybody paid attention to the ruler? Maybe that's why they wedged the tree on that little pot. Pot ain't little; tree just UUUge!

 

[River's Edge]

Anybody paid attention to the ruler? Maybe that's why they wedged the tree on that little pot. Pot ain't little; tree just UUUge!

Centimetres on the ruler! What diameter would you suggest the trunk base is, not the nebari spread.

 

[_#1_]

Centimetres on the ruler! What diameter would you suggest the trunk base is, not the nebari spread.

Lol realized this wasn't in America after posted. But still think the root spread is bigger than a big male adult hand spread out. Base like a size of a forearm I'm guessing

 

[Japonicus]

My plan would be putting it in a big air pruning pot for couple of years and developing the foliage but no idea what beyond that ....

I would not remove either lower branch as mentioned in 1st post.

Also if you give excess space for roots, expect longer internodes on new growth and long bare necks in Spring. I think this would work against your plan to develop the foliage by making it more gangly. The tree would have new growth on steroids.
Better to just have good new growth that comes with up potting a little and fresh soil.
Need to check the shin for field soil and address in a near future Spring at 1st repot. I agree the tree is under potted. Or in the wrong pot.

As far as purchasing, I think the nice nebari evens out the lack of taper. I love the pad development as it is. Inquire as to when last repot was done if you buy it so you know when better to address the feet and how vigorously.

 

[Potawatomi13]

For that much $$ NOT!

 

[kudos91]

Thank you so much for your advices ! If I manage to set aside the fund for this one then I will follow yours suggestions to nurse it back to good health first before deciding anything.
This one is from one seller who imported a lot of bigger tree every year then sell them within one year. Here in Germany at least there is possibility to purchase many decent tree at a fair price, of course many are in not so good condition like this one but couple of years of good care can bring them back on track. For example this one is another zuisho that price around 1600 1800 dollars

 

[namnhi]

Thank you so much for your advices ! If I manage to set aside the fund for this one then I will follow yours suggestions to nurse it back to good health first before deciding anything.
This one is from one seller who imported a lot of bigger tree every year then sell them within one year. Here in Germany at least there is possibility to purchase many decent tree at a fair price, of course many are in not so good condition like this one but couple of years of good care can bring them back on track. For example this one is another zuisho that price around 1600 1800 dollars

I like this one more then the first one but looks like the nebari isn't as nice as the first one. This one looks masculine while the other is feminine. Pick the one you like but I would suggest get a cheaper JWP to get some experience before dropping 2k on a tree that could die in a few months.

 

[River's Edge]

Thank you so much for your advices ! If I manage to set aside the fund for this one then I will follow yours suggestions to nurse it back to good health first before deciding anything.
This one is from one seller who imported a lot of bigger tree every year then sell them within one year. Here in Germany at least there is possibility to purchase many decent tree at a fair price, of course many are in not so good condition like this one but couple of years of good care can bring them back on track. For example this one is another zuisho that price around 1600 1800 dollars

I think the first tree is a better Tree, I would not be interested in the second tree.

 

[flor1]

The first tree would be my choice.
As far as value I’d already own it.

 

[Nybonsai12]

First tree has better movement and better nebari compared to what we can see of the second.