You’re right, of course, trees are never really finished, but by “finished” I was referring to trees that have developed to “show quality” status. Let’s not get all caught up in semantics.
An excellent post altogether but the above referenced statement refers to the reputed "finished" bonsai as well since by consensus a bonsai is never finished and therefore incomplete.
That's the thing, though, isn't it? "Show quality" trees are only show quality for what, a year?, Two? before they need work. As you know, "long term maintenance" can involve substantial reworking or re-development of parts of a tree, or even the entire tree if it is redesigned.
I think @rockm drawing his own distinction on “finished” just adds to this discussion and if anything adds to the argument that buying a “finished” tree is a worthy effort as it is still quite difficult to maintain and move forward. Wether the tree was started from “scratch” or bought with provenance, eventually that persons imprint is placed on that tree good or bad. Bonsai is about as gray area an art form as I’ve ever seen and is rarely, if ever, black and white.
If anything @Adair M , @rockm is defending (not that your asking for defense) your entire bonsai style. I don’t think, unless I’m mistaken, you own any trees that you personally started from “scratch”. That though, doesn’t mean that your artistic level of craft and attention to detail art not ever present in every tree you own, wether you started it or was started as an import tree from a Japanese master. You still make beautiful trees.
That depends on your definition of “Scratch”! I have started trees from pretty rough stock. I don’t care to try to grow from seed, although I did a long time ago. I’ve been doing bonsai, one way or another, for 50 years. Way back when I was a teenager, I did mess with cuttings and seeds. And sticks in pots. I don’t now as much. I don’t post them and create threads on them. Who wants to see a stick in a pot? I have some project trees. But I prefer to work on making refinements rather than “growing”. For some, they prefer the growing to refining, and that’s fine.
What kind of material or work where you developing in your late 20’s -30?
This I know Adair! You have said as much on multiple occasions on here. Believe it or not I’ve been on this site a while! But it doesn’t matter wether you buy “finished” or sticks in pots, it still takes a skill set to take the trees to another level, or, maintain them at the level they are at. Which you are clearly skilled at. For me, I DO want to see sticks in pots, as long as they are followed up with proper bonsai work and each progressing photo obviously yields results. At 38 and 9 years in. I’m less about sticks and seedlings and more about something in between that and “finished”. After 50 years and me at the age your at (what are you 85, 90?? JK) I’m sure I will be far more inclined to buy trees that just need refining and progressing.
Back in the day, I bought pre-bonsai material from David Cook who taught me my first lessons in bonsai. He operated a shop called “The Garden Source” in Atlanta. Rodney Clemons and I started at about the same time. I was vice=President of the Atlanta Bonsai Society at the time. That was before the Internet, and I sometimes bought material like azalea whips via mail order. I had a lot of sticks in pots! Every now and again, I would get something from David that he had purchased from Brussels, and it would be better developed as a starter. I had never really seen a truly refined tree. I saw them in pictures, but I didn’t know how to get them from “development” to “refined”.
I’m 67. I started bonsai when I was 16.
V. Cool , I always appreciate learning more about fellow Bnuts , something to aspire to what you all accomplished in Bonsai. That’s how old my dad is so I respect how long you’ve done this for .. again.. something I want to accomplish in terms of longevity in this art/craft.
Back in the day, most of the "old-timers" here had only "sticks in pots" or mostly inferior nursery material to work with. Thirty years ago, a "finished" tree was, by today's standards, pretty amateurish looking. There were virtually no Japanese-educated established instructors--although there were a handful, but you had to live near one to really take advantage of it (this was pre-Internet). There were also only a few serious yamadori hunters getting good stuff from the wild. There were one or two bonsai-specific growers (Brent Walston at Evergreen Gardenworks for one) Again, you had to deal with these sellers on the telephone for the most part. When the World Wide Web and dial-up access began to speed up communications, things began to change--dramatically--for bonsai, IMO.
What is your opinion on the trajectory of native species in bonsai in terms of level of refinement.
Lightyears ahead...the puzzle of how to care for species like ponderosa pine, RM Juniper, etc. has largely been solved. The availability of pretty spectacular ponderosa pine in particular always amazes me. What you would have paid $500 for 20 years ago, is now readily available for $100 or less. They're common and they're thriving. SAme for Bald cypress, cedar elm and a number of other species. You only have to look at sites like Bonsai Mirai at the level of refinement going on with U.S. species now. I remember when people in the eastern U.S. who had rare collected Cali. Junipers subscribed to California newspapers to see when it rained out there, so they could water their trees ;-) yeah, it happened.
LOL, I remember people talking about subscribing to newspapers to find out when it rained… but that strategy didn’t work because it rained here so often! Unless you kept it in a greenhouse where you HAD to water it, it would rain here whether it rained in the desert or not!
You could cover the surface of the pot with newspaper to prevent rain from getting in...;-)
