Wire cutters

[Adair M]

I agree Adair and generally do unwind the small wire, especially Al. Copper is really hard to unwind though, and even at small gauges you can risk breaking the branch or causing damage to the bark while trying to unwind. The other advantage to unwinding Al wire is you can reuse it sometimes! Shocking to some purists who have money to burn I am sure... But wire is hard for me to find without ordering online and it can get a bit pricey. I reuse some of the small wire I unwind from time to time and with Al it works just as good the second time without needing to be annealed again. Copper is so hard after it sets, not only is it difficult to unwind but it has to be annealed again if you want to try to reuse it...

The other thing that makes it easier to cut off though is- sometimes when you apply the wire, you are doing it to a freshly trimmed tree with somewhat sparse growth on it, or a deciduous tree that is dormant perhaps... And by the time you remove the wire, your tree may have grown a bunch of new foliage which is suddenly very close to the wire and easily broken off as you try to unwind it! In those cases, when removing large wire and generally most any size of copper, I am using my wire cutters to take it off... Which is about 40-50% of the time I am removing wire I'd say.. So it is a very important tool I have found.

Someone mentioned having bought just some regular hardware store wire cutters, and those are fine when applying wire. To cut it to shape... BUT, after believe the same thing and using regular wire cutters for years, I found that there really is so ring to the rounded tips Bonsai wire cutters have. The hardware store tools almost all have a sharp, pointed tip and to get it in close enough to the tree to cut the wire all the way that tip will invariably bite into the bark much more often than the rounded tip cutters you get for Bonsai, AND the long, thin design of the Bonsai tool allows you to get into tight/ tough to reach spots that the hardware store tools are just not made to get into.. May seem like minor reasons to spend extra on a tool, but once you get a BUNCH of trees that need wire removed, you will be glad you have a good set of cutters to do it! The Kaneshin tool is very high quality IMO and not that expensive compared to other quality Bonsai tools.

Eric,

Copper doesn't "set". It does work harden. Which is why I try to bend it as little as possible as I apply it. It's bent a little more as I shape the branch, so it gets a wee bit stiffer when I do that. But from that point on, it stays the same stiffness. Until I remove it.

I have found that the SMALLER the branch, the more important it is to unwind the wire. The small branches are much easier to accidently cut when trying to cut wire.

Yes, it's tedious. Like any skill you have to practice doing it. I, too, resisted when Boon first told me to remove wire by unwinding. But, I have mastered it. And it is the better way. It's the way the best professionals in Japan do it.

 

[Adair M]

Look at the pictures again. You will notice they have pliers in one hand. The pliers give great leverage, and make it easy to unwind.

 

[GrimLore]

On the other hand, my Sears wire cutters -- which do the exact same thing -- cost me $5 a number of years ago. Likely $15 now, but STILL . . .

That one word -- bonsai -- adds Many dollars to a price.

Unwire big, cut small. I find a very old pair my Dad left me work well when I need to cut and agree on the fact adding Bonsai to the verbage would probably make those cutters very expensive. Also brings to mind I do have the expensive stuff and while working on a tree in a session was told by a "Master" I should learn to use proper tools which he did not know I had with me. I ignored him and all went well - turns out he had a LOT of tools or sale... "shrugs"

Grimmy

 

[Adair M]

Grimmy,

Are you saying you cut the small wire off, and unwind the large wire?

That's just the opposite of what I do! And I only cut off the really big wire. Size 10 or larger. I can usually get 10 off by unwinding.

 

[GrimLore]

Grimmy,

Are you saying you cut the small wire off, and unwind the large wire?

That's just the opposite of what I do! And I only cut off the really big wire. Size 10 or larger. I can usually get 10 off by unwinding.

What I meant was I normally find unwinding on larger plants and cutting the wire on smaller plants works best for me. The plier method on the big stuff along with an extra set of hands most often. I myself am far more steady handed with the cutters on small plants and it used to be unwinding them would land me a broken branch or two. Just what works with me at my age and physical abilities. No matter which route I find going very slow produces best results as the old "hand and eye" coordination is not what it was

Grimmy

 

[Adair M]

Grimmy,

My shohin Zelkova was wired with 18, 20, and 22 gauge copper. Branches are sometimes as thin as a pencil lead. Some thinner. Virtually impossible to cut the wire off. It HAS to be unspun. And using pliers in one hand and tweezers in the other.

 

[GrimLore]

Grimmy,

My shohin Zelkova was wired with 18, 20, and 22 gauge copper. Branches are sometimes as thin as a pencil lead. Some thinner. Virtually impossible to cut the wire off. It HAS to be unspun. And using pliers in one hand and tweezers in the other.

Hard time with my communication skills today but yes I agree and understand. I do much the same as you and modify what I do depending on wire size and branch size, Basically I use both methods and which I use depends on my ability to be acurate no damaging the plant.
One of the things that has always misified me sitting with others is the person "showing what is proper" normally does not show alternate effective methods that are also sae to try depending on an individuals abilities. By ability I see a lot of different factors - Some as myself do not have a steady hand as they did 10 years ago. Others do not have the financial ability to go expensive. And the list goes on... Fact is there are many "means to the end" and being an Art I enjoy learning, seeing, and trying a multitude of methods.

Grimmy

 

[Robert E Holt]

My Kaneshin wire cutters arrived today. While it is too early to tell how they will hold up long term, I am very pleased with the quality. I tried them out on my azaleas and they cut through 10 and 12 AWG wire like butter. I have to say they make a big difference over the side-cutters I have been using. Much easier to get into tight places and with the long handles they cut much smoother with less hand pressure. I think I will enjoy using them.

 

[barrosinc]

did you get the 511?

 

[Robert E Holt]

did you get the 511?

Yes I got the #511 and also got the 20d. That way I saved a little on shipping and now have good coverage for most wire sizes I should need.

 

[barrosinc]

good choice.

 

[Robert E Holt]

Thanks for the help in making my choice. It was your recomendation of this model that helped me decide.

 

[johnegert]

Since I'm new to this forum, see my brief intro over at the Announcements section, Harry Hirao thread. I suggest to my students that if finances are tight, the first actual bonsai tool to buy is a good Japanese wire cutter. You can cut wire off a roll with any decent tool--- I have a Felco cutter that I love which will cut anything it can bite--- but , when time comes to cut wire from a tree and not damage bark, a true bonsai cutter is miles ahead of ordinary dikes, etc. I am not an unwinder, either. There is simply too much chance of breaking twigs and marring surface bark. Also, unwound aluminum wire is pretty worthless, and the work-hardened nature of copper makes it that much tougher to get off without mishap. I've become a stainless fan, and have a couple of Fujiyama's, but save my crazy-expensive Masakuni's for the heaviest work.
John Egert
Albuquerque Bonsai Club

 

[Adair M]

Welcome to the forum, John.

I find your comments about unwinding interesting. Especially since I posted a photo of Akio Kondo unwinding copper wire from a juniper. Akio is one of the highest regarded bonsai artists in Japan.

Have you actually tried unwinding copper wire?

I have "unwound" copper wire from dozens of trees and have yet to break a branch or twig in the process.

 

[johnegert]

Adair--- Sure, I've unwound tons of copper--- rarely aluminum--- but , beyond expense (which has become considerable) I don't see the point. Oddly, I have never cut off a twig with a good wire cutter. Also, in my Japan era, wire was routinely cut from established trees and sold to the "wire man" who picked-up scrap periodically. BTW, one of my first duties as a hakajin apprentice was to anneal and coil bulk wire. Shows, I guess, how techniques change over the years....
john

 

[M. Frary]

BTW, one of my first duties as a hakajin apprentice was to anneal and coil bulk wire.

They didn't get the wire from Jim Gremel?!

 

[Adair M]

John, when were you a apprentice?

A couple of the reasons for unwinding:

It's possible to accidently leave chunks of wire on the tree. Especially in the crotches. In fact, recently I restyled a tree that had been wired many times in its history. And I did indeed find a couple such chunks. They were covered over by the most recent wiring that I was removing. One I was able to remove, but the other was buried too deeply.

I have also come across chunks of wire in the soil when I have repotted trees. It probably didn't hurt anything, but you wouldn't want to make a habit of that.

And probably the most important reason: if wire is left on long enough to cut in, only a portion of the wire is on the outside of the branch. You can't cut completely through the wire without also cutting through some portion of the wood. And if you only cut partially through, often the wire twists and tears through the wood. And, if you don't cut through at a 90 degree angle, the wire twists and tears the bark. Really, really fine wire on extremely ramified trees can't be cut off. I had to remove copper wire on my shohin zelkova using tweezers. No other way.

I speak from experience. For 35 years, I too, was a cut-in-chunks kind of guy. But, I have learned that unwinding is a better way. Really, unwinding properly is a learned skill. Done properly, you don't do any more damage removing wire than you would applying it.

 

[Adair M]

They didn't get the wire from Jim Gremel?!

Hey, Mike! I learned something yesterday... I sat next to Julian Adams yesterday and we talked wire. As you know, I recommend his and Gremel's wire, but I actually prefer Gremel's. Julian is a potter, so I had assumed he did his in a kiln, like Gremel does. But no! Julian says he does his by hand in a fire. He told me he's set his clothing on fire several times during his wire selling career. He does it by hand, turning the wire over in the fire so that all sides get heated. He told me that it was actually Bill Valavanis who actually encouraged him to do it commercially.

So, he claims his wire has more soot on it than Gremel's since it been in a fire rather than baked in an oven like Gremel's.

 

[M. Frary]

Hey, Mike! I learned something yesterday... I sat next to Julian Adams yesterday and we talked wire. As you know, I recommend his and Gremel's wire, but I actually prefer Gremel's. Julian is a potter, so I had assumed he did his in a kiln, like Gremel does. But no! Julian says he does his by hand in a fire. He told me he's set his clothing on fire several times during his wire selling career. He does it by hand, turning the wire over in the fire so that all sides get heated. He told me that it was actually Bill Valavanis who actually encouraged him to do it commercially.

So, he claims his wire has more soot on it than Gremel's since it been in a fire rather than baked in an oven like Gremel's.

I know all about the soot! I try to wash it off but some is still there.
That's awesome he does it old school!

 

[johnegert]

Well, Adair, this probably gets down to personal preference, but I'll be glad to stir the pot a little longer. The "leaving wire on the tree" argument sounds hopelessly thin to me. We're supposed to be careful, aren't we?? Don't freaking leave any wire pieces!! One reason I cut is to see where leverage points have worked, and where not, thus grasping where to rewire if necessary. The "wire in the soil" beef sounds even thinner..... I'd agree that badly cut-in wire usually has to be pulled out/away, but I'd still prefer to isolate such a section by cutting, frequently because such wire can be pulled THROUGH the cuts parallel to the branch, making a "better" scar than to unwind it and pull it out perpendicular to the cut and tear out more wood.
Now comes the part where I usually get in trouble: US bonsai has always suffered from a desire to immediately adopt the latest "Master"-endorsed technique, without half-enough thought as to why the techniques are being practiced, or if they are appropriate to our conditions. This is understandable, given our hunger for knowledge and our desire to improve as quickly as possible. I used to get a huge kick out of John Naka's enjoyment of watching his legion of students adopt every quirk and detail of his techniques, even when he had no particular reason for them other than habit or convenience. He thought it greatly amusing when, after a Calif. Bonsai Society program in which the demonstrator used a bottle jack to bend a cascade, about half the membership made an immediate bee line to Pep Boys to load up on jacks......
And I sure as hell don't want to sound like I'm sneering at techniques suggested by my superiors. I just need to assimilate them with a view as to what works in my world. So, as always, we're probably back to the personal preference theme. I'm comfortable with that.....

I studied in Japan in the early 70's.
john