Thoughts on Peter Chan? (Herons Bonsai)

[hinmo24t]

I think the money comes more from chucking maples in the ground, chopping them once or twice and then selling that, or selling imported mall-sai. He also said he makes more money from selling big garden trees than bonsai.
I would not say business survival makes him good at bonsai, though he may be. It makes him a decent nurseryman.
Some of his older trees are mostly valuable because they are old/big, not because he shaped them well.

fair points, but im not going to believe the guy has been 40 years in business from selling purely to entry level bonsai enthusiasts. he runs online retail as well as brick and mortar and has a variety of quality. he has a ton of serious trees all over the place, big $, and a lot of lesser material as well. from what i can gather, unless $ is in his family, he has done well. ive been with my company 8 years, owner is 35ish years in competitive setting, so peter running his successfully for 4 decades i do believe you could say proves he is good at bonsai and business (my opinion, but i tried to throw objectivity in there too)

 

[Clicio]

He is what he is and does what he does.

Exactly. It's up to him.

 

[BobbyLane]

he hasnt imported for 2 decades or more. so isnt affected by import restrictions and others fees/add ons like your typical nursery man.
all the maples you see are from cuttings/airlayers, mostly all his deciduous trees are layers, cuttings or nursery bought material, a lot of it grown in the fields for many years. he can go to the local nursery, buy a load of hornbeam and beech and leave them in the field to thicken, just cutting them back now n then.

most other UK nurseries dont have that field growing capacity, some are just selling from a back garden.

even kaizen have had to cut back on importing, Potters tree stock has drastically decreased over the last few months.

Therefore Chans business appears to be brexit/recession and even covid proof thus far.

edit. some of the larger maples, korean hornbeams etc he has had from days when he was in fact importing.

 

[badatusernames]

He completely destroyed a John Naka Forrest , it was neglected but he made it worse. He styled a literati pine that absolutely looked horrendous , his technique is terrible. I just watched the other day they repotted a big trident Maple, I don’t even know where to begin. At his age , with the amount of material he has , with years of experience, it’s like he declined because his previous work is great. There are plenty of talented Bonsai practitioners in the UK, and I never hear his name brought up.

Which Naka forest is that? That's awful, but I'm very curious to see what happened to it. I feel like there's education to be found in great trees gone wrong as well as the ones that are currently perfect.

I still maintain that this stuff may not exactly be for us - forum dwelling bonsai nerds. If you sit a newbie down and tell him everything you do or think on a given day, about soil, fertilizer, aesthetics, pots, etc., they're going to freeze in horror and not go any further. If you tell them "just put a bend in it and put it in a pot and it's a bonsai", well, technically it is, and now they're doing bonsai, and the rest will follow. I guess I see a lot of value in that as an entry point into the hobby.

Also I mean if I'm in my 80s and still plopping maples into the ground I'll be glad if I can even explain to my caretaker as to why, but I'm not even halfway there yet and my brain is already fried, so.

 

[hinmo24t]

he hasnt imported for 2 decades or more. so isnt affected by import restrictions and others fees/add ons like your typical nursery man.
all the maples you see are from cuttings/airlayers, mostly all his deciduous trees are layers, cuttings or nursery bought material, a lot of it grown in the fields for many years. he can go to the local nursery, buy a load of hornbeam and beech and leave them in the field to thicken, just cutting them back now n then.

most other UK nurseries dont have that field growing capacity, some are just selling from a back garden.

even kaizen have had to cut back on importing, Potters tree stock has drastically decreased over the last few months.

Therefore Chans business appears to be brexit/recession and even covid proof thus far.

great points, well put


only thing i could nitpick is i associate brexit with a positive in terms of economics; even catalyst for why it occurred and why i believe all EU will have to see if they can survive on their own soon. the cumulative socialist ship is sinking (as they all do unless tiny country or one with horrible human rights) i remember seeing germany as only true solid fiscal country in EU, and when there were proposals to have them as a model for EU $ troubles (in last 5ish years), people got nervous thinking back to their dark history in the 40s with putting them in control. i heard they are slipping from that pedestal now as well though

 

[hinmo24t]

Exactly. It's up to him.

yes, and where customers spend their money is up to them

 

[Adair M]

You have to realize that bud videos are really just an advertisement for people to come and buy his stock. He takes rough stock (that he has hundreds or thousands of) gives it a rough going-over and claims it’s “bonsai”. Sure he makes it look easy! He has tons of mediocre trees to sell!

 

[hinmo24t]

You have to realize that bud videos are really just an advertisement for people to come and buy his stock. He takes rough stock (that he has hundreds or thousands of) gives it a rough going-over and claims it’s “bonsai”. Sure he makes it look easy! He has tons of mediocre trees to sell!

its great marketing, but not intended purely as an ad for him. he teaches people a lot of things during those ads. and he doesnt just have rough stock, which is obvious in nearly all the videos ive seen of him walking around or w.e.

 

[Pitoon]

You have to realize that bud videos are really just an advertisement for people to come and buy his stock. He takes rough stock (that he has hundreds or thousands of) gives it a rough going-over and claims it’s “bonsai”. Sure he makes it look easy! He has tons of mediocre trees to sell!

I believe that's the part most everyone is not understanding. He is a grower showing you what you can do to rough stock. It's up to the individual to work the material.

When a business/company puts out YouTube videos it's all about free advertisement to draw in new customers.

 

[Pitoon]

its great marketing, but not intended purely as an ad for him. he teaches people a lot of things during those ads. and he doesnt just have rough stock, which is obvious in nearly all the videos ive seen of him walking around or w.e.

I fully agree with you. He does have a passion for plants/practicing bonsai and wants to share his knowledge with everyone. I think when some people get to a certain age they feel the need to share their knowledge and experience to the next generation. This is a good thing as if it's not for those individuals a lot of knowledge could be lost.

.........but at the end of the day he still has a business to run and employees to pay.

 

[penumbra]

Very well reasoned thoughts Pitoon.

 

[hinmo24t]

I fully agree with you. He does have a passion for plants/practicing bonsai and wants to share his knowledge with everyone. I think when some people get to a certain age they feel the need to share their knowledge and experience to the next generation. This is a good thing as if it's not for those individuals a lot of knowledge could be lost.

.........but at the end of the day he still has a business to run and employees to pay.

yep. almost more impressive to me, spreading knowledge/videos and running a successful business at the same time. i wonder if he spends time with family or does much else. he does talk about his wife often

 

[Wulfskaar]

Bonsai can be very intimidating. I think what Peter Chan is doing is trying to spark interest and show people not to be afraid. Him busting out a "bonsai" in a couple minutes is like offering people free crack rocks. Some will take the leap and get hooked. He knows those that do get hooked will do more research and learn finer techniques on their own or in a class. Not only is he advertising, but he's spreading the bonsai bug. I feel as if he has a ton of knowledge and is trying to get it out very fast.

 

[Grovic]

He's said in a video that he aims to get new people interested in the hobby, that brings him more satisfaction than teaching advanced level students. Sure, the nursery trees he uses in some videos might be mediocre to some more experienced people, but are good enough for entry-level , any person that is really interested in bonsai will remain long enough to know that they need to step up their game. Of course it is a business for him, and maybe the main target audience for his vids are newbies. If you read some comments in any of his vids you'll see that he has succeeded in getting people interested in bonsai; also, as any person who is famous and successful, you'll see a lot of hate too.

 

[Pitoon]

as any person who is famous and successful, you'll see a lot of hate too.

I wouldn't so much to agree to the word 'hate'............more like jealous and envy.

 

[BobbyLane]

Bonsai can be very intimidating. I think what Peter Chan is doing is trying to spark interest and show people not to be afraid. Him busting out a "bonsai" in a couple minutes is like offering people free crack rocks. Some will take the leap and get hooked. He knows those that do get hooked will do more research and learn finer techniques on their own or in a class. Not only is he advertising, but he's spreading the bonsai bug. I feel as if he has a ton of knowledge and is trying to get it out very fast.

He's said in a video that he aims to get new people interested in the hobby, that brings him more satisfaction than teaching advanced level students. Sure, the nursery trees he uses in some videos might be mediocre to some more experienced people, but are good enough for entry-level , any person that is really interested in bonsai will remain long enough to know that they need to step up their game. Of course it is a business for him, and maybe the main target audience for his vids are newbies. If you read some comments in any of his vids you'll see that he has succeeded in getting people interested in bonsai; also, as any person who is famous and successful, you'll see a lot of hate too.

Two good points here. thats it really, a lot of people dont seem to get that.
I started out watching quite a few of the youtube guys that constantly get slagged off on here and i still enjoy watching chan today. doesnt mean i follow their techniques. in fact i look at chans trees and wish i could have some and improve them especially some of the large raw hornbeams and maples. i always see things that can be improved and done better.
a lot of people keep saying he's bad for bonsai and beginners in general, i dont see it that way. bonsai is a progressive hobby right, if youre serious about bonsai you will indeed want to up your game and purchase better and better material. iron out any bad habits, work on techniques. seek out other channels, watch other pros/masters etc, join forums/clubs etc.

yeh i notice on his youtube comments that his fans love what he's doing and ive rarely seen his flaws being pointed out, seems to have a loyal following. i guess a lot of those guys are content to remain at that level, which is fine too right.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Sometimes I wonder why folks decide to gang up on a person who has been making a go of it for years and isn’t afraid to show internet folks what he knows….. So Bonsai folks can either enjoy his style or nit pick his work to death on forums.

If I had half the awards, successful books honors and creds Peter has now for his bonsai work by experts and the greater Bonsai community when I pass on, I indeed would be a happy person.

Not even to mention the RHS Bonsai Walk at Wisley… his wife and he have sponsored for year.

If you ever have done deep research on the Peter Chan background story as I have, you night be astonished to read a story of someone who brought his family and himself up through tragedy in India. …and who changed careers midstream to work with something he loved and made a go of it. An English and Indian success story to be appreciated by all.

…and now someone who is trying to give back for the greater good.

I guess it’s back to the old adage, “People can’t truly appreciate what they don’t understand?”

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[penumbra]

Sometimes I wonder why folks decide to gang up on a person who has been making a go of it for years and isn’t afraid to show internet folks what he knows….

People are basically insecure. All of us. In college I wrote a paper on neurosis. The paper like the year, is long gone. The one thing I learned from research for this paper is that virtually everyone is neurotic. This is particularly true of people who see light and dark and ignore the greater truth that exists in the greys between.
No criticism is directed or intended toward anyone here or elsewhere, it is simply our nature to ignore the place where dark becomes light and light becomes dark....
When we don't like something it is because we recognize those very things we dislike within ourselves, or at the very least, we recognize the potential to be as much an ass as a saint.

 

[Shogun610]

Peter Chan has more trees than I do...

He also makes his LIVING with “plant money”...

Good for him..

His “work” and methods aren’t always my style....that’s ok.. If they WERE my style.... I wouldn’t have my own.



Getting hung up on other artist’s modus operandi.. is often the harbinger for an internal lack of artistic expression.

Nah no hang ups on artistic expression here. Just pointing out his methods on styling, wiring and repotting is methods that won’t work with beginners and give them bad habits. His channel is specifically for bringing more beginners in, and IMHO , not hating his past work , but some methods he uses can be very specific to his climate , and his technique is not fundamentally grasped and explained like Bonsai Tonight ,Bjorn or Mirai etc.

 

[Shogun610]

Sometimes I wonder why folks decide to gang up on a person who has been making a go of it for years and isn’t afraid to show internet folks what he knows….. So Bonsai folks can either enjoy his style or nit pick his work to death on forums.

If I had half the awards, successful books honors and creds Peter has now for his bonsai work by experts and the greater Bonsai community when I pass on, I indeed would be a happy person.

Not even to mention the RHS Bonsai Walk at Wisley… his wife and he have sponsored for year.

If you ever have done deep research on the Peter Chan background story as I have, you night be astonished to read a story of someone who brought his family and himself up through tragedy in India. …and who changed careers midstream to work with something he loved and made a go of it. An English and Indian success story to be appreciated by all.

…and now someone who is trying to give back for the greater good.

I guess it’s back to the old adage, “People can’t truly appreciate what they don’t understand?”

Cheers
DSD sends

You are allowed critique other artists works.

Which Naka forest is that? That's awful, but I'm very curious to see what happened to it. I feel like there's education to be found in great trees gone wrong as well as the ones that are currently perfect.

I still maintain that this stuff may not exactly be for us - forum dwelling bonsai nerds. If you sit a newbie down and tell him everything you do or think on a given day, about soil, fertilizer, aesthetics, pots, etc., they're going to freeze in horror and not go any further. If you tell them "just put a bend in it and put it in a pot and it's a bonsai", well, technically it is, and now they're doing bonsai, and the rest will follow. I guess I see a lot of value in that as an entry point into the hobby.

Also I mean if I'm in my 80s and still plopping maples into the ground I'll be glad if I can even explain to my caretaker as to why, but I'm not even halfway there yet and my brain is already fried, so.