Thoughts on Peter Chan? (Herons Bonsai)

[Mapleminx]

Every Bonsai Master is different from the next, they all have their own strengths, weaknesses and differing creativity. This is why it is so important to build wisdom and techniques from many sources. No one person has an identical skillset to another, it’s art which means it will always be littered with people’s personal preferences.

So let’s stop debating who is ”the best” and just appreciate the skill sets each one has on our own journey to improve our own skills and gain experience.

One can never stop learning.

 

[BobbyLane]

What do you think of the hedgehog though?


View attachment 337853

To my eye, it looks a little 'shrubby'. i think it could be improved. ive seen the video and the first thing that sprung to mind, although a nice enough tree, if was mine i would probably cut it back a bit harder. but i would of done that a long time ago with the experience i have now. its an old tree according to the video, maybe the time has passed.

 

[BobbyLane]

if somebody can throw random numbers why should I keep myself behind ha ha ... its funny... I want to ask the gentlemen/and honorable woman if Peter Chan is their bonsai god, what do they think of Master Kimura, Bjorn, Mauro, Ryan Neil's of the world? .... and if they say that the real masters of the bonsai world are equally good as Peter, I will shut my case on this thread

hmmm, bonsai god far from it. but i can relate because ive been to the nursery quite a few times, its not too far from me. often i dont go to buy but just to look around, its a big place and you can easily spend an hour going around. i watch the videos and i always see things that i would do differently, if i watch the other guys you mentioned there isnt much they do that could be improved or done differently. they tend to nail it

my two cents

 

[BobbyLane]

Every Bonsai Master is different from the next, they all have their own strengths, weaknesses and differing creativity. This is why it is so important to build wisdom and techniques from many sources. No one person has an identical skillset to another, it’s art which means it will always be littered with people’s personal preferences.

So let’s stop debating who is ”the best” and just appreciate the skill sets each one has on our own journey to improve our own skills and gain experience.

One can never stop learning.

yeh sure, i think you can take a little something from everyone.

 

[Mapleminx]

yeh sure, i think you can take a little something from everyone.

Yup even if it’s to learn how “not” to do something. Still a lesson learned

 

[ConorDash]

I admittedly didn't read this whole thread, as im amazed this topic has gone on for 9 pages.
But did someone really ask "who is the best" in something that is an art form?
That's completely the definition of impossible...
What's better, the Mona Lisa or Michelangelo's Sistine Chapel? Or maybe his Statue of David?

Its a completely endless question..
Also I don't think any "Bonsai Master" will ever say they are on a Bonsai Master, or else it probably wouldn't make them one.. I don't think there is such a thing. Its not possible.

 

[BobbyLane]

 

[badatusernames]

I've kept bonsai a few years, but have been getting more and more interested in creating my own and working more intensively on what I have.

This past year, I found Heron Bonsai to be helpful, because he just does it. I have some materials now that make it seem like trying to keep a maple in a pot is basically an impossible endeavor unless it's your entire job. Peter Chan made it feel like I don't need to be a perfectionist and can just experiment, and I think that push into hands on action has gotten me to a point where I can recognize that I think he does things a little too fast and the end results I see in the videos don't necessarily equate to strong bonsai tree. BUT - it got me more willing to make some cuts and take some risks, and that's a first step many folks don't take. I also enjoy some of his videos like the recent maple series, because it's sort of a crash course with broad brushstrokes as to what you should be going for. You can fill in the shades on your own with Peter's framework as a basis.

Only time will tell if this has been beneficial to my long term focus on bonsai, but I can say that as a newbie, they've been great to watch and learn from at this period in my development, and now I think I'm ready for some heavier lifting and closer attention to details from other bonsai masters.

I kinda feel the same way about Nigel Saunders, I know someone here suggested calling it The Pre-Bonsai Zone, and maybe that's true, but it's nice to watch the trees develop over time and realize how severely he'll chop them sometimes in order to achieve a future result.

The really important thing I'm learning though is that between all the hedge trimming he'll do with his shears, he'll talk about how to take cuttings, why things grow the way they do, sometimes reinforce how a new branch will come in a certain direction depending on where you cut an old branch, etc, and it's little dumb details like that that come in super helpful and are useful to drill in. If you asked me flat out which direction a new branch will go after pruning an old branch, I probably won't be able to tell you off the top of my head with 100% certainty even now, but I'll know where to go look it up til it's cemented in my brain and I don't have to look it up any longer. Peter Chan is part of that.

 

[BobbyLane]

love the hollows on this chunky Field maple @Tieball

 

[Mitty]

Well, I have always watched Peter Chan. I admire his forthright manner and find how he finds Bonsai possibilities from everywhere. And he is not worried about looking extra smart : he gets his hands dirty and does what he thinks is necessary, even if it means pulling up his own garden.
However, if you are into Shohin, then I think you will not find his videos are suitable for you. But all his work is worth watching.

 

[Stella]

I absolutely love his videos.
What i enjoy most is the impressive "best in show" trees you see glimpses off in the background in most of his videos.
I do believe his personal trees are in the best condition and he probably puts in all the effort and attention to the fine detail will them, he just doesn't put those in videos as he caters for a very specific market of hobbiests that will most likely never show trees in their life and really just want to enjoy the art

What I appreciate most of his videos is how is is very passionate about not wasting.
for a guy with 20 000+ trees, he will still air layer and make cuttings of even the worst material to not waste.
his passion is contagious
And the other this is how he can really make a nice tree out of material that most other people would through away - this is where is skills and experience is really shown.

I love watching his videos about difficult or impossible material.

 

[jerzyjerzy]

I keep watching his videos because his optimism and passion are really enjoyable, especially for a man in his eighties.

On the other hand, it is pretty irritating when he shows a tree after wiring it hurriedly and carelessly for two minutes, and then putting it in a pot, and says "I made a bonsai out of nothing in two minutes!", and I see an S-shaped crappy bush with three pairs of bar branches that still looks like the worst pre-bonsai in my collection. What is even worse - it will never be a worthwhile bonsai if started this way.

The mention that it is enough just to bend a tree a little and put it in a pot to make a bonsai out of it is kind of skewing the idea of bonsai to me.

On the other hand, he gives a lot of good information missing in official videos of the "masters" - how to start a tree, how to create taper step by step - shown repeatedly in many videos. Unfortunately it is very often mixed with not-too-good-practices he praises. If you are a beginner, and you always take his videos at face value, you can pick up a lot of bad ways of doing things bonsai.

 

[Shogun610]

He completely destroyed a John Naka Forrest , it was neglected but he made it worse. He styled a literati pine that absolutely looked horrendous , his technique is terrible. I just watched the other day they repotted a big trident Maple, I don’t even know where to begin. At his age , with the amount of material he has , with years of experience, it’s like he declined because his previous work is great. There are plenty of talented Bonsai practitioners in the UK, and I never hear his name brought up.

 

[hinmo24t]

He completely destroyed a John Naka Forrest , it was neglected but he made it worse. He styled a literati pine that absolutely looked horrendous , his technique is terrible. I just watched the other day they repotted a big trident Maple, I don’t even know where to begin. At his age , with the amount of material he has , with years of experience, it’s like he declined because his previous work is great. There are plenty of talented Bonsai practitioners in the UK, and I never hear his name brought up.

He makes a living doing bonsai, which is more than most of us can say or ever will

 

[penumbra]

He is what he is and does what he does.

 

[ConorDash]

He makes a living doing bonsai, which is more than most of us can say or ever will

Sorry, I dont understand. Why does that make him good at his job?

I have no dog in this fight, or opinion about Peter, at all. I have a problem with the argument made.
It would be like saying "*insert popular Bonsai professional who does not own a shop* doesn't own his own shop or sell trees in the same quantity as Peter, so he Peter must be better". I don't think its a valid argument mate.

 

[hinmo24t]

Sorry, I dont understand. Why does that make him good at his job?

I have no dog in this fight, or opinion about Peter, at all. I have a problem with the argument made.
It would be like saying "*insert popular Bonsai professional who does not own a shop* doesn't own his own shop or sell trees in the same quantity as Peter, so he Peter must be better". I don't think its a valid argument mate.

usually if a product or service is sub par or uncompetitive, you get rendered out as a failure in a commercial setting, per se. you could split hair all you want but in free enterprise, the proof is in the pudding; tenure or years in business are a testament to that notion -the pudding

similar to saunders, people can split hairs on him (lots of material lol) but he has 100k subscribers, they watch, and he lives off those objective metrics

 

[HorseloverFat]

Peter Chan has more trees than I do...

He also makes his LIVING with “plant money”...

Good for him..

His “work” and methods aren’t always my style....that’s ok.. If they WERE my style.... I wouldn’t have my own.



Getting hung up on other artist’s modus operandi.. is often the harbinger for an internal lack of artistic expression.

 

[Rivian]

I think the money comes more from chucking maples in the ground, chopping them once or twice and then selling that, or selling imported mall-sai. He also said he makes more money from selling big garden trees than bonsai.
I would not say business survival makes him good at bonsai, though he may be. It makes him a decent nurseryman.
Some of his older trees are mostly valuable because they are old/big, not because he shaped them well.

 

[ConorDash]

usually if a product or service is sub par or uncompetitive, you get rendered out as a failure in a commercial setting, per se. you could split hair all you want but in free enterprise, the proof is in the pudding; tenure or years in business are a testament to that notion -the pudding

similar to saunders, people can split hairs on him (lots of material lol) but he has 100k subscribers, they watch, and he lives off those objective metrics

Lots of hair, lol yes.

I get you, thats totally valid. I would like to think its not so black and white though. Who knows, maybe Peter has a rich family and is able to fund a lot, not from the profit from trees, they just supplement it. Wild example, I'm sure its not the case but it highlights my point.
Same with Nigel, youtube is ... well, its a wild place. Subscribers is usually certainly a good indication of how good a channel is, but in Nigel's and Peters case, who is say the info or trees they sell, are good? How often do people buy a good old Chinese Elm, mallsai, because they don't know any better, as they are beginners. The world is full of beginners. Plenty of people can get by in life, but it necessarily mean their bonsai trees are of good quality, or they themselves are highly skilled?