Thoughts on Peter Chan? (Herons Bonsai)

[leatherback]

The first image is older than the second. Just look at the trunk thickness, and how the scar is sitting back into the trunk on the first image.

THe last image is just back to a bush. Clearly left unmaintained or poorly maintained for a loong time. It is effectively back to raw material. To get this back to the first image will take several years imho.

 

[BobbyLane]

The first image is older than the second. Just look at the trunk thickness, and how the scar is sitting back into the trunk on the first image.

THe last image is just back to a bush. Clearly left unmaintained or poorly maintained for a loong time. It is effectively back to raw material. To get this back to the first image will take several years imho.

yeh looking closer the scar does look raw in second row.
so the second row shot is the first styling as Adair pointed out.
Chan doesnt really say at what point he sold the tree.

 

[Adair M]

in the video he says the first screenshot is after it was styled in 84.
Vance also said the original design has been corrupted, but i can still see the pads and the outline of the 84 styling. just looks shaggy and neglected to me

Yeah, I made my first comment to you just based on your photos. I did see in the video where he gave the time line.

I still say that the tree declined significantly from it’s initial styling to the photos.

 

[leatherback]

in the video he says the first screenshot is after it was styled in 84.

Nope. He sais that about the second picture.

 

[leatherback]

He also sais that the forest was sold and not maintained properly by the new owner. That they have had it back in the nursery for a bit now, so it can get stronger.

 

[Adair M]

He doesn’t say what it looked like when he sold it.

I have not seen any pictures that show an improvement (or maintenance) of the original Naka image.

 

[BobbyLane]

Well i dont know about you guys, but since i love hornbeams im gonna sit down with a cuppa tea and watch the latest Chan video footage

 

[Mapleminx]

Well i dont know about you guys, but since i love hornbeams im gonna sit down with a cuppa tea and watch the latest Chan video footage

The size of that thing!

 

[Carol 83]

The size of that thing!

Where is @M. Frary when you need him??

 

[penumbra]

I still say that the tree declined significantly from it’s initial styling to the photos.

This I completely agree with, but I don't think the tree was destroyed. In the right hands it could be far grander some future day than it has ever been before. Unfortunately I will never be alive to see it.

 

[HorseloverFat]

This I completely agree with, but I don't think the tree was destroyed. In the right hands it could be far grander some future day than it has ever been before. Unfortunately I will never be alive to see it.

Depending on time spent in the “soul waiting room”.... We’ll meet up during your next go-through... I’ll be quite old.....well my BODY will.

It is believed that past, linear recollection improves with each ...expulsion.

 

[Adair M]

This I completely agree with, but I don't think the tree was destroyed. In the right hands it could be far grander some future day than it has ever been before. Unfortunately I will never be alive to see it.

Not destroyed? At least 1/3 of the trunks are dead, there’s dead branches all over. Leggy, leggy growth. The trunks have all “splayed out”, whereas when Naka created them they were all standing up straight.

I think you and I have different ideas on the concept of what “destroyed” means!

Can it recover? Sure. Needs new trunks added. Needs to be pulled apart (cut apart) and rearranged. The legginess will take 4 or 5 years to fix, or new branches need to be grafted on.

Yeah, I’d say it was destroyed!

 

[penumbra]

I think you and I have different ideas on the concept of what “destroyed” means!

Then it is a non issue.
That which is destroyed is no more. By the most liberal definition, if something is destroyed it has been reduced to useless constituent parts.
Since it is a non issue, it is the end of contention. I can not get terribly excited about it one way or the other. I just feel the word destroy carries too much weight since it is not dead and dust.
You are welcome to use the word any way you like. The beauty of words is that they are just words and not a perfect form for the purveyance of ideas.

 

[Adair M]

Then it is a non issue.
That which is destroyed is no more. By the most liberal definition, if something is destroyed it has been reduced to useless constituent parts.
Since it is a non issue, it is the end of contention. I can not get terribly excited about it one way or the other. I just feel the word destroy carries too much weight since it is not dead and dust.
You are welcome to use the word any way you like. The beauty of words is that they are just words and not a perfect form for the purveyance of ideas.

Well...

I didn’t say “destroyed” originally, I said it had “declined”.

No matter...

I don’t don’t know enough about the history of the tree to assign fault, so there’s no point in discussing it further.

 

[Hoyonokuma]

I've just started watching his latest video Spring Pruning Japanese Maple and airlayer and already have tons of questions.
While I have no experience, technique, knowledge to dare think I know anything better than mr Chan, I can't help but wonder: "why pruning them big brunches off alltogether? Why not layering them or better try to relocate 1or2 á-la Sergio?"
There is clearly a lack of elements on the right side of his new front.. So.. Rather than just cut and throw away, why not trying to improve it?

It's just a honest question to those of you who have put in the work and probably have some technical, reasonable answers.

 

[Peconomou]

He is a charming gentleman. I believe he wants people to feel comfortable with bonsai and his demeaner.... he seems VERY APPROACHABBLE. Honestly, I could see myself sitting down and talking with Peter for several hours...some of the other bonsai masters...not so much. Perhaps his age has given him a different perspective.

 

[MrWunderful]

I've just started watching his latest video Spring Pruning Japanese Maple and airlayer and already have tons of questions.
While I have no experience, technique, knowledge to dare think I know anything better than mr Chan, I can't help but wonder: "why pruning them big brunches off alltogether? Why not layering them or better try to relocate 1or2 á-la Sergio?"
There is clearly a lack of elements on the right side of his new front.. So.. Rather than just cut and throw away, why not trying to improve it?

It's just a honest question to those of you who have put in the work and probably have some technical, reasonable answers.

When you have thousands of trees, its not always pertinent to invest the effort into air layers. Great for those of us who are hobbyists who need quality “free” material, but not worth it to someone whos business is moving as many trees as possible for profit.

The whole Ebihara technique of relocating branches is an extremely difficult and advanced technique, usually only reserved for super high quality trees that are worth the effort, time and risk.

 

[Hoyonokuma]

@MrWunderful
If that tree was yours, wouldn't you consider it worthy of a try (branch relocating)?

Cause I mean, if I value my tree like 2k and I commission a known professional to do some big work on it (and paying him the due fee) I would expect him to show me different options and lead me toward what's best long terms. Basically, behave as if it was his own.
I truly enjoy watching his vids, but this is exactly one of those moments where I wonder if working fast and with big numbers for such a long time has him putting the quality and needs of the individual tree on the side, sometimes.

 

[MrWunderful]

@MrWunderful
If that tree was yours, wouldn't you consider it worthy of a try (branch relocating)?

Cause I mean, if I value my tree like 2k and I commission a known professional to do some big work on it (and paying him the due fee) I would expect him to show me different options and lead me toward what's best long terms. Basically, behave as if it was his own.
I truly enjoy watching his vids, but this is exactly one of those moments where I wonder if working fast and with big numbers for such a long time has him putting the quality and needs of the individual tree on the side, sometimes.

If I had the time, skill, and ability, I would already “know” if it needed to be done.

Peter Chan isnt known for his amazing high quality laser focused deciduous technique. He is known for creating a ton of “ok” material, and a small amount of decent quality finished bonsai. Not one of the top in the world, maybe top 5 in UK (I personally would put Harry Harrington and Graham Potter over him) design wise.

Maybe he can relocate a branch, not sure. But when I see him hack at a maple with hedge pruners, It makes me wonder. I have personally only seen Ebihara do it in a book, and I know @MACH5 has attempted (been successful?) it as well.

 

[BrightsideB]

He is like a creative rogue artist. He does things his way and doesn’t care if he kills a tree. Or does things like leave wire wrapped on the tree forever. He is a cool artist to me. I don’t think he has the best advice but to each their own. It’s like everything in life. Have to stratify information from many sources to really have more in depth understanding.